BYYB Forums

My masts will stand (once we get there ) all year long. I will have the boat in water all summer and during the winter the sticks can stay in the boat as well.

In Paul´s pictures the topmasts are free standing. Is that really the case or is something omitted for clarity? If I could get away with just the stays and shrouds for the lower masts I would like to try the topmasts with a tumbler fid of some kind.

Yes, the topmasts are free standing. I drew them just because the hoops and hounds lend themselves so well to a fiddled top. A pole mast is much more practical. In fact, on small craft I usually recommend a Cornish style topsail on a pole mast. The masts as originally drawn can carry a pretty good size topsail Cornish style (they're tall enough). Of course the style doesn't offer the most amount of area, but it's effective and not going to jeopardize the rest of the rig if a problem comes up. In fact, if I do my job correctly, the topmasts will fold up (break) before the rig is in serious trouble. All free standing rigs need to have this consideration carefully looked into as a safety measure.

Personally, I wouldn't use fiddled tops or hoops, but to each his own. I also wouldn't use topsails, but rather a big drifter and other headsails to improve both downwind area and light air performance. These, to me, are so much easier to live with then topsails. Topsails are like really pretty girlfriends, a joy to look at, not especially practical, difficult to live with and high maintenance.

I suppose you are right about the practicality of the topsails, but if we take that route the ultimate outcome is an aluminium power skiff to move along on the lake. Minimum maintenance, superior windward ability as well as downwind speed  ;D

I gave up most (but not all) of that when going for a gaff schooner as you pointed somewhere earlier in this thread. I have to admit (isn´t it obvious) that I am after looks and style here as much as the ability to keep moving in light winds.

If I want to have topsails what would your recommendation be, fidded topmasts or topsails with a yard? I would guess that the yard would be easier to rig originally but is it more trouble when hoisting and dousing?

I found some pictures showing more or less exactly what I was after with my thoughts of main topsail and a fisherman:


It isn´t totally bad looking with the high pole mainmast without a topsail either(can schooners look totally bad ever??):


Personally I would place the peak halliard blocks higher in the mast when there is room but otherwise this is the configuration I was thinking.

Greetings Timo,

I have always preferred Gaff Schooners, fidded topmasts, topsails, and fisherman staysails.

Then I saw this Privateer 35 ...



... and she looks just fine to me.  This is the only Schooner rigged Privateer (Thomas Gilmer) that I have seen as the rest of the 35's seem to be rigged as ketches. The smaller 26 is sometimes rigged as a sloop, and in that configuration looks very much like a Weekender.

Cheers,
Tom

Greg Go ahead and post your photo of Shara Lee in full dress so everyone can see how pretty the lake is here at Nickajack, and what a Vacationer looks like with a top sail.  Bud

These are the V.0 prototype top'sl and yankee sails.  First time inthe water.  As can be seen the top is too small.  When undersail they worked good as long as we had wind.  As can be seen with iron jib deployed, wind was not in abundance that day.  You may be able to see the wooden top mast here.  All of the prototype sails were emlarged for V.1 and the carbon mast was in place when it all came down.  If I had run the big yankee shroud to the top of the main mast we would have been OK.  It was just too much rag for the poorly stayed carbon fiber top.  It looked slick though.

Greetings all,

First, let me start out with ... good job Craig!  High praise is deserved for even attempting this modification.

Now, for anybody contemplating version 2.0 of the topsail, you might consider the following analysis.

Starting with the V1.0 photographs ...



Others, much more knowledgeable on the subject than me (Tom Cunliffe, John Leather, Howard Chapelle), have pointed out that gaff topsails look best when the clew of the topsail meets the peak of the mainsail at the same point along the gaff, usually the end, and that the gaff should bisect the angle of the leeches evenly, which we do not have in the V1.0 sail as indicated with the red highlights ...



So, through the magic of the GNU Image Manipulation Program (GIMP is free and available for Macs, Linux, Unix, Windoze, et al ... http://www.gimp.org/ ), we will just stretch the top sail out to the end of the gaff, and then lower the gaff until the angles look about symmetrical, thusly ...



The main boom has also been lengthened and the foot of the mainsail stretched out to improve the looks of the mainsail and to balance out that huge yankee that his hanging off the bowsprit, which leaves this very fetching photo of the Saralee ...



Lastly, I would contend that the rig looks just as salty with a slightly smaller yankee hoisted from the trucks instead of the end of the topmast and offers the ability to more safely fly the Yankee alone without bothering to set the topsail ...



Either way, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.



Of course, that was all very easy to do with the computer (about 30 minutes total).  But in real life, you would need to build a new longer boom, cut a new mainsail, topsail, and Yankee, and install a set of spreaders at the trucks and another set of shrouds to support the fidded topmast.

Well, that's all academic now that the Saralee has a new home. 

How's the Saralee II coming along?  Will you finish her before Timo completes his Schooner?

Cheers,
Tom

I am back in business after a couple of weeks vacation and other activities with the family. I also modified an old book self to fit our bedroom and finished the tables for router and circular saw. That was enough to keep me away from the build for a while.

I DID make some progress with the boat, although it was reverse progress    Looks like I need to change some plans.
I ripped and slotted the staves for a gaff but it didn´t turn out well. The spruce I used had so many small knots that it was impossible to get proper staves without strength compromising knots in them. I ripped a dozen staves, the length of 2+ metres (~7 feet for metrically challenged) and got only two pieces that qualified.

The worst ones couldn´t support their own weight when coming out of the table saw! The rest I was able to snap easily. Of course they were only 12x22mm (~1/2 x 7/8) but still, when the timber is solid you need to use a lot of force to break it against your knee and these snapped in my hands.

I suppose I need to go for pine, it is easier to find knot free and only marginally heavier although much harder and stronger. Also the difference in hardness between the knots and timber proper is smaller so hopefully I won´t be destroying more plane blades  ;D

Need to go shopping at the lumber yard, which is always fun.

I am glad that I am still in my own workshop and not in the yach club's: there was a fire the building last week and although the workshop didn´t burn they are without electricity for some time. It is an old engine stable of the railways and used by different hobby groups etc at the moment.



http://www.savonsanomat.fi/uutiset/savo/...%A4/541107

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=vggscvk...vl=2&sty=b

Yep, the spar stock needs to be pretty clean at these dimensions. Once they're notched, they can be easily damaged and flimsy, so defects so up quickly. What is the difference in weight between the two species?

That's a damn sin about the old railway hub. That's just down the block from you isn't it?