Short Introduction. I built Weekender Shambala starting in Oct, 2000, and launching in May, 2003. True to its name, I worked mostly on the weekends, thus the relatively long build time. It was also good for my pocket book, paying as I go. I started out as a woodworker thinking "...Oh. There's an interesting aspect of woodworking." I am a woodworker first, and still learning to sail.
I built very close to the plans, without straying or improvising much at all, although some details took some time to resolve. I attribute that to my own desire to know before hand whether or not things would work out. I'm conservative that way. I don't like to move forward until the way is cleared in my mind.
I have the pleasure of reporting that every single time I have taken my Weekender out these past couple years, I have received multiple compliments from passers-by. I owe those compliments to Stevenson Projects for developing the plans (thank you very much), and perhaps to my execution of those plans. I absolutely love the details: The bow sprit, gaff rig, taff rail, splash coamings, trail boards, rub rails, wooden spars, all details not normally encountered on "modern" boats, thus the compliments.
I've found the Weekender to be a "fair-waters" boat. I took Shambala out on Michigan's Lake St. Clair (about 25 miles across) once in a 1 foot chop and had a rough time hanging on let alone sailing. I could not keep her into the wind while hoisting the sails. She always wanted to go broad side. I've since stayed on smaller lakes in fairer weather. Perhaps this indicates I am more of a woodworker and less of a sailor.
Here's my question: I really wanted to build the Vacationer when I first started, but I let myself get talked out of it by my better half. Now, I'm thinking of stepping up. Is the Vacationer a more sea-worthy boat, or is there something I can do to make the Weekender more stable in a one foot chop? Do the boats sail differently? Is BIGGER better?
Yes, Yes!
Bigger is better and there are some things you can do to help make the Weekender more stable in chop.
The Vacationer is inherently more stable due to its wider hull, greater weight and longer length. The Weekender is really a small boat by comparison not just by the tape. Can you sail on Lake St. Clair in a Weekender? Yes, but it helps to understand what you are facing in moderately heavier wind conditions. You will need to use power to keep the boat headed into the wind. Raise the main sail first (always). The pressure on the main will help to keep the nose pointed into the wind. Let the main flap while pointing into the wind. If you need to reef down the main and have reef points on your main, do so prior to raising the mainsail when ever possible. This will reduce the windage and make it easier to point into the wind.
Once you have the main raised, if you are not alone, then I find it easier to begin to make headway while still under power. Get the mainsail working and then set the jib. If it is on the clubfoot this makes handling it a lot easier in the heavier wind conditions. If it is too windy to have the jib set then sail with the main reefed down. You will have more of a tendency to head into the wind without the jib. Once you set the jib, the boat will want to become more balanced in the helm and you will find it trying to turn off the wind a bit. But if you already have forward movement then setting the jib will generally be an easy thing to accomplish.
Then kill the power on your motor and sail on and enjoy the day.
To bring it back down, head into the wind and let the sails luff, keep power on the motor to maintain a minimal headway into the wind. Then douse the jib and then douse the main.
A few builders have felt the need to add some ballast to the Weekender to try to make it feel less tender. Personally, I've not seen the need, it is a small boat and once you understand that it will move about on you and you get used to what it is doing, you probably won't have any issues.
Keeping the motor working to maintain a little headway into the wind and raising and lowering sails in the right order will generally be all that is necessary to make handling in even heavier chop manageable.
My first outing on a Weekender was in 2-3 foot waves in the open waters off of Maui. The wind was blowing the tops off of all of the waves. Never felt the least bit uncomfortable. Yes, it is tender, it is a small boat. The Vacationer will feel a lot more stable and you will find that you need a little more breeze to get it going, but it will feel a lot bigger than the Weekender. You can move about without it moving about underfoot.
A number of us have used a roller furling system for the jib which makes it unnecessary to go forward to set or furl the jib. Lots easier way to manage in more wind and chop. But setting it up with a clubfoot is a little tricky, but not impossible by any means. The Harken Small Boat Furling systems work well. Some builders have fabricated their own furling systems and they work. If you want more information, just ask.
Wonderful response so soon. Thank you. I appreciate hearing from someone who seems to be a better sailor than me. The most I've ever had to deal with is wood flying of a lathe and hitting me in the head (not as bad as capsizing a boat and drowning).
I like the Bigger is Better part, not so much for the sailing aspect, but for the more room in the cockpit aspect. I spent a night out on the water on our Weeekender, and that was ok. Although, the wine and cheese was very good, by morning, I was ready to get off. (It was a blue moon).
What I'm really looking for is, ....:Is the Vacationer worth building, or should I modify my Weekender Shambala?
Ahoy Mark,
Welcome aboard. Our boat is not yet finished, and I have never seen a Vacationer other than the one we are building. However, from what I can garner, the Vacationer is not a larger version of the Weekender. My guess is that it is a different boat with different handling characteristics. This seems to be Barry Pyeatt's view as well. In my view, Barry is as knowledable as anyone about these boats. Whatever he tells you, you can probably take to the bank.
Most likely either Craig Gleason or Keith Mclean could tell you how the Vacationer handles and how it might compare with a Weekender.
Ours is a highly modified version. You mentioned the cockpit. The Steveson site lists these comparative dimensionsâ
Vacationer
The Vacationer cockpit floor is 50" long, about 2' wide at the front and 13" at the rear
Weekender
The Weekender cockpit floor is 42" long, about 20"wide at the front and 11" at the rear.
Our Version
The cockpit in our boat is much larger than either of these two stock designs. As I recall (I am writing from memory), our cockpit sole is a consistent 28 inches wide and over 6 feet long. If you compare the actual cockpit area, the figures are even larger. Our cockpit itself measures roughly 6 feet wide and 7 feet long. The seats rather than being 12 1/2 inches high are closer to 15 inches. Our poop deck is about 4 feet long.
Indeed, one of the nice features about the Stevenson design is its adaptability to change, but be careful how you modify the design. Some changes work OK; and other changes, not OK. Paul Riccelli could probably advise you here.
As to modifying the cockpit in your Weekender, take a look at John Teetsel's fine boat. John made a few design changes and ended up with a rather spacious cockpit.
Is the Vacationer worth building if you already have a Weekender. Without question, YES! You can never have too many boats. None of them will ever be the "Right Boat" for every circumstance. I've sailed Lake St. Clair, Huron, Michigan and Superior and I could honestly say that A Weekender is fine for close to shore sailing and in the protected bays and inlets. The Vacationer will make all of that more comfy and give you more room to stretch out. The simple addition of space for a port-a-potty and bunk space is well worth the build in my mind. Especially if you plan on camping with it.
My particular interest in the Weekender was to have a boat that I could single hand or take a partner along on day sails and some camping out on occasion. But to also see if my grown family would use it as well. Been sailing all of my life, need to have a fun boat that I can trailer here and there and just have fun with. Had big boats, and boats for ocean sailing as well as a series of small boats. Just wanted to build one that I could have fun with and was classy looking. Weekender fills the bill for me in more ways than one. I also modified my cockpit quite a bit as far as the seating goes to allow for more leg room and butt room and greater storage access. The photos are in the Gallery.
Modifying a Weekender to have more accommodations would prove difficult. She could tolerate some length by leaning the transom over, which would add some room to the cockpit, but you're still limited by the general dimensions of a 13' LWL craft. Removing the cabin (several builders have done this) or shortening it, can create a huge play pen for daysailing, but you can loose the protection of the cabin and it's dry stowage.
Vacationer is a much larger vessel (18' LWL) and easily double the displacement of Weekender (some much heavier), which provides much more elbow room, both above and below deck. This additional size means mass and momentum, so you can bash your way through conditions that would turn back a Weekender. The comfort level is kinder, you'll instantly notice the small boat feel of Weekender is gone in a Vacationer.
Both Weekender and Vacationer are fair weather craft, intended for protected or sheltered waters. This doesn't mean you can't slosh through a storm or continue sailing when the weather goes bad in the middle of an outing. You certainly can, but these boats aren't designed for a steady diet of this type of work.
Personally I have 6 boats currently. You'll find they breed when they find a friendly owner. I have the same problem with stray animals (4 dogs, 7 cats and a few birds). It's an illness, I suspect, but one you learn to live with in time. The hardest part is convincing the other half (the one that must be obeyed) that we truly need this new boat, that followed me home on the way back from the marina (or whatever excuse I'm making up for her).
Weekender is a fun boat, easy to put up, launch and use. Vacationer is a bit more effort to use, launch, recover and setup, but this is generally typical when stepping up to a larger boat. The extra size affords the owner a little more of everything (including construction materials). Most folks find, with practice and a standardized routine, they can get the boat underway and recover the yacht at the ramp, pretty quickly.
Any small boat can by taken into conditions they aren't well suited, by mistake or fate. Properly handled both craft will weather surprisingly vicious waves, current and wind. Handled poorly, they will reward your efforts with a capsize, damage or test your dental work.
In the end, it seems reasonably clear, you've got the same disease the rest of us have and now are engaged in the futile attempt of resisting it. Promise to name it after her and that you'll remodel the bathroom, including a whirlpool. If you don't, this illness will eat you up and a slow, painful, withering death awaits. I know it sucks, but it's not your fault, it's a disease, long understood (no cure as of yet, other then continued building) and recognized by the AMA. You could always say it's her next birthday present . . . (okay, I tried that once - I hope your event goes better then my attempt at bribery)
Thank you all for your replies. This dialogue is proving to be very beneficial for me, much more so than I expected. I'm not only learning about these boats, I am also learning about myself, particularly that I have this disease. I didn't even know it. This makes a lot of things fall into place. And my wife, being an RN, will certainly take this disease into account. Thanks for the diagnosis Paul.
I'm not likely to do much modification to the plans either to the Weekender or Vacationer. There is enough choices for me to make in the details (where the Devil resides.) :twisted: Getting into major plan changes entails too many additional choices and I risk never getting the project completed (or started). Even as it was, it took me 2 years 8 months to build my Weekender, without changes. I have a tendency to get caught up in details, very analytical.
Based on everyone's comments thus far, I believe my corrective therapy requires a Vacationer.
Hey Mark, welcome aboard. GO MAKE SAWDUST!!!!! Yahoo!
Hi Mark, I just wanted to let you know there is a well built vacationer available for sale in the Ohio area from Jim Stumph. It might be just what you need
Keith
Hi Angie, Hi Keith,
I'm still in the pre-saw dust stage, getting the saw dust cleared in my mind first. From what I've seen in these BYYB posts, there may be some details in the Vacationer plans that may not be quite right. So I need to study them a bit more, read these posts, and talk to people like you who know the Vacationer build first hand.
I've seen some BYYB posts about the same possible error issues in the Weekender plans (i.e. infamous station 13) but I don't recall having that sort of issue in my Weekender build. As I recall, everything went together as measured per plan. But I also had a tendency in my build to sip a little brandy which may have obscured my recollection. Or perhaps it was the time I fell out of my boat onto the garage floor.
I've also seen some wonderful plan modifications made by many here. I need to sort all of this out and decide what my Vacationer plan will be.
Thanks for the tip Keith that a Vacationer may be up for sale in Ohio. But for me, its not the boat, but the build of the boat. I love wrestling with the design details. I'm still a woodworker first, sailor second (or as my wife would say, third or fourth).
Keith, Can you offer a sailing characteristic comparison between the Weekender and Vacationer? This may further solidify my decision to actually start some Vacationer saw dust.