BYYB Forums

0 to 5 knotts is almost not enough. 5 to 10 knotts good? How about 10 to 15 knots? Is 20 too much?

What does everyone think. What is the "sweet spot" for our boats, and when is it too much?

Just curious...

Well, been out in a Weekender when there isn't enough wind to blow out a BIC. But we were moving when everything else was motoring to get anywhere. Been out in 25 knot winds with the main reefed down and a storm jib flying in 4-5' open ocean waves with the tops blowing off of them. That was fun, once we got used to what was going on. :lol:

Depends a lot on where you are at and what the water conditions are like as well as how much room you have to maneuver about. What protected areas you can duck into if needed to wait it out and how secure you feel with your abilities to sail in higher wind or gusty wind conditions.

For a '"new to sailing in a small boat" type of person, more than 10-12 knots will make most of them feel uncomfortable. Learning when to reef down early is a difficult thing to accomplish unless you fully understand what your comfort level and experience is like. For them less than 10 knots and small waves will still bring a lot of fun and learning experiences.

If you have never sailed in swells or higher breaking waves, then over 12 knots will bring white caps on lakes and close together chop from waves being reflected off the shore. Sailing reefed down is totally doable for the more experienced in a small boat, but not for novices. Small craft warnings are just that. You want to be on the trailer or in a protected area away from wind and wave action.

Ideally if you want "some excitement" and potential to get to hull speed and learn to approach the useable limits of your rig, 7-10 knots will give it to you. You will learn that heeling over is a normal and safe thing to do as long as you understand what is happening. Some bursts will hit you and your reaction time will improve. On a small lake it will be choppy, larger lake will have some wave action, salt water may have small swells or just wave action, or both. If you are going to learn what your rig is all about, and how to do the things you need to do, this is the range that I find best for learning curves. Also for having some fun and excitement. It makes it possible to get longer runs cross the wind on a reach, down wind, upwind and on long legs tacking. It makes reaching a destination, even if it is just a marker a worthwhile goal and making the mark a good measure of how you got there, then heading off to a new marker. Gets you an opportunity to sail on all points with some speed and consistency in what you do. You will find out that you will tend to oversheet the main and that lessening tension on the main sheet a bit will actually give you better performance. You will find out how high you can point and that bearing off will actually give you better forward momentum and speed. You will enjoy tacking and making it thru the tack consistently if you bear off the heading a bit and give yourself time to pickup momentum first.

You will learn just how much the boat will heel and where it will become stable. Gaff rigs only go so far before the begin to dump massive amounts of wind over the top of the gaff. If it gets hairy, drop the peak halyard immediately while retaining your heading and you will depower and the boat will return to a more upright posture. Keep the heading and raise the peak again and learn to feel what is happening. Good exercise to practice so you will know what is happening and how to manage it.

Practice turning into the wind and letting the sails luff. Then bring it back into the wind and work away. You'll do a lot to develop both confidence and the skills to work with the boat.

That is what I've learned over the years. Others will have differing offerings based upon the areas they sail in and their experience levels.

Steve, if you can keep the boat on her feet, without shipping water over her rail, then you're in great shape, regardless of wind strength. In light air conditions (0 - 5 knots) maximizing forward momentum is paramount. Excessive body movement, should be kept at a minimum, concentrate of good sail set and keep them drawing as best as possible, will make forward progress easier. Light air requires good skills to keep her moving along nicely. In moderate breezes, up to 15 knots the boat is in her element (just like most day sailors). The outhauls will be tighter, compared to light air and you'll sheet a bit flatter to drive the boat harder. Once you start getting over powered, by gusts or increasing wind strength, then you need to start reefing her down. Getting bent over a little every few minutes is fun, for a while, but can get tiring quickly and does strain the boat. If you can get near shore to kill some wind strength, then this may be all you need. If in relatively open water, where finding the shelter of a lee shore isn't possible, then tuck a reef in the main, or change the lapping jib down to a working headsail (100% or boomed).

Reefing isn't hard, if you do it soon enough, which is very important in a gaffer. Unlike Bermudian rig types, the gaffer will need to be reefed earlier, just because the relationship between the main and headsail is so dramatic. On a typical Bermudian sloop of similar size, the main and jib would be very close to the same size. This isn't the case in a Weekender or Vacationer, the much larger gaff main will, with lots of area hanging off the outboard end of the gaff, will develop a twisting motion to leeward, which yanks the bow hard to windward (pivoting around the center of lateral plane), which you have to fight in the helm. Helm pressure will increase faster in a gaffer, so you have to reef earlier. With a reefed main and a 90 - 100% jib, you'll be reasonably comfortable to around 20 knots, with gusts pushing you around a little. If you have a second reef in the main and the wind is still building, put it in, if not douse the main. You could carry on under jib alone for quite some time, but the helm may feel funny, because the CE has moved forward a lot. As winds build this feeling will diminish.

Most folks are running for shore when the winds are over 20 knots, usually under reduced sail. On the other hand, you could install a second reef point on the main and buy or make a spitfire, maybe a full set of storm sails. With a double reefed main and a spitfire (very small, heavy weight jib) you could continue on through 25 with gusts to 35 knots, but you'll be shipping water from the chop and boarding waves. Since these boats don't have self draining cockpits, it's not wise to carry them through heavy air, it's just to easy to capsize a boat. Righting a capsized Vacationer in these wind strengths would be imposable, a Weekender would likely be so too. The surface area of the exposed bottom would push you to leeward and the boat would slowly try to sink. With some luck you'll have a good size air pocket trapped in the bow and possibly the stern so she'll lay there on her side, looking pretty forlorn until you can get some help. Tying PFD's (as many as you have) to the top of the mast, would be a good idea, to keep her from going "turtle", which will complicate righting her considerably.

In the end, taking a protected water boat into weather, beyond her abilities requires very good seamanship and some luck. I've handled small craft in near gale force conditions and come through, but I'm a very experienced skipper. The average Weekender/Vacationer owner usually has limited sailing skill and shouldn't venture far from shelter if the possibility of heavy air is around. Where I sail, any summer day can lead to 50 knot winds in a fast moving thunderstorm rolling through. Keep an eye out and get the sails down, if all else fails so you can ride it out. If you get caught with your paints down, weren't paying attention and a storm rolls over you and you can't get the sails down, release the sheets and let them flog. This is a last ditch effort to save the boat from capsize and not recommended, unless you can't take the wind strength and the boat is way over pressed (rail down, shipping water, etc.) The sails will not last long like this, particularly if they are poly tarp, but you can repair or replace sails, you butt is more difficult to justify replacement, especially to your love ones.

Being on the water in a boat you constructed is one of the greatest joys life can bring. It's easy to forget you are farther from shore then you can swim back to and this must be strongly considered when a storm or increasing wind strength threatens. I've lost a number of friends to the sea, over the years and would much prefer you to be an old gray haired forum member then an addition to the ever increasing list of persons lost at sea. If you feel the heel angle and wind strength is uncomfortable, you should have reefed sooner. Most will start thinking about heading in when the wind gets close to a steady 20 with gusts to 25.

Thanks Barry & Paul!

You have been very helpful and have made up my mind about something...

I was going to write a book, but decided it had already been done. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Does anybody read those post? Curious minds want to know hock: hock: 8) I certainly know several who don't..... maybe it is just us :?: :?: :?: All good, all good.

Hey cap'n Ang!

Whad'ya think about a regional messabout on Pamlico Sound, launching from Rodanthe, NC (35.59N 75.47W) on the Outer Banks? Say sometime early next June? Should be a good time for softshell crab then... sail all day... crab bake on the beach at night... sound like fun? D'ya think we can convince the Chessie & Southeast gang to take a little (6 hr) road trip to Hatteras Island?

http://www.camphatteras.com/

I'm game..... let's see what we can get going. 8)

what do you mean 6 hour road trip? You might double that and get there. Man it's a LONG drive from Atalanta to the OBX, but it sure is nice when you get there. I was there for the first public opening of the Hatteras Light after it was moved. They had it open for memorial weekend. We climbed to the top and my kids were interviewed by a TV news crew. Sure would be a nice place to visit again, but it's a long way to pull the boat. I'll have to give that one some thought. Especialy after breakin down on the way to Buds

Keith

What happened, was it the truck or the trailer? You remember with Boat US they send someone to the rescue for the trailer. Heck it is only 11 hours from here to Atlanta..... must be because you have to go so far east and there aren't any roads over there.

Problem was with the truck, I had a vacume pump freeze up on me and it broke my belt which runs everything. Not all bad though, I was helped out by another sailor that Scott knows. He also knows Craig from the BEER cruise. He's a nice guy.
You are right about going East to the OBX, once I get of 95 it seems I'm only half way there still. I just checked my gps software, it says its 620 miles and 11.5 hours away. Pulling the boat that adds probably 2 hours easily not including stops. We'll see what becomes of it though

keith