Hi all, Good work getting back on line after the Hack. I was sure worried when the link came up.
Anyway on to the question, has amy one put a mizzen on a Weekender?
the boat looks like Joshua Slochum's Spray. He added the mizzen for crusing around the workd singlehand. He said with the mizzen she would self steer so he could sleep. I don't want to sail around the world but sometimes it would be good to just let the boat go and not worry too much about it. Also I think it looks good.
Thanks David
You could probably set the boat up as a yawl by adding a small sprit sail to a mast affixed to the transom - possibly even attached to the motor mount.
I don't know how "effective" it would be though. With the main cleated and the steering locked you would get a certain amount of self-steering at the risk of being knocked down in a gust.
One piece of advice that a friend of mine gave me many years ago though is that it is very depressing to fall overboard and watch your boat sail itself away from you :wink:
Ahoy David,
As I recall, PAR spoke with me about mizzen on my boat (Vacationer). Perhaps, he will see your posting and make a comment or two.
So, PAR (and others) what do you think?
I re-registered, then I opened the message that said read before re-registering, which was about using full names, oops. I'm Paul Riccelli, PAR is nothing more then my initials. Richard_Norman, should I re-register under my full name?
David, I seem to remember responding to a similar question a day or so before the assault on the site. I'm not sure if it was BYYB, MessingAbout or another forum, but the issues still remain.
Self steering can be accomplished in any boat, though some are better suited then others. The "Spray" (I built one many years ago) was reasonably suited for this because it had balanced underwater areas and lines. This was very typical in yachts of the era and the trend is still valued by cruising sailors. By balanced lines, I mean the shape of the waterlines, buttocks and diagonals are similar at each end of the boat. This permits the water flow, separated by the bow, to move around the boat, reattach astern, reasonable unmolested. This produces an easy wake, reduces turbulence and contributes to an easy motion at sea.
Yacht design has evolved past these easy flowing lines to shapes that now resemble drawn out triangles (the pointy end facing forward) having very broad stern waterlines and diagonals. This gives the hull shape bearing area aft, resists the roll moment and allows bigger sail plans. The result of these newer trends have increased speeds such that an older style yacht couldn't dream of achieving. There are also some draw backs to these shapes (there always is a trade off), but most will welcome the speed, in spite of the changes in the handling characteristics.
Back to self steering; sheeting arrangements can be rigged up so your boat can steer herself. There are several ways to do this, most being surprisingly simple. There are also the options of a mechanical or electronic device being installed (steering vanes and auto pilots respectively) which can do the job with less fuss.
A yawl rig on Weekender isn't possible without moving the rudder inboard (under the boat). The definition of a yawl (the currently accepted version, it's changed over the years) is a mizzen stepped abaft of the rudder post. Since the rudder is transom hung, placing a mizzen aft of this may have some engineering challenges. A ketch is doable in a Weekender. The definition of a ketch has the mizzen stepped forward of the rudder post.
Typically, a rig gets divided into sail sizes that can be reasonably handled by one person in a blow. None of the sails on Weekender are big enough to warrant cutting it and placing it on another mast. The ketch rig would require the mast to be in the middle of the cockpit, which is a bit cozy now. Staying base issues would haunt the modification and the size of this sail would offer little to the overall performance envelope. In defense of the rig, a staysail could be flown from the mizzen head and this would add good power when the sheets are well eased. This sail would have to be doused on each tack or jibe and couldn't fly on close reaches or close hauled, so it's effectiveness is limited.
The mizzen could be placed against the aft bulkhead (where the wheel lives) and the wheel would need a new mount. This would help some of the staying issues, but the cockpit would become divided with a wheel in the middle of it instead of a mast.
It's possible the keel profile would need some changes to compensate for the increase in sail area aft. When tolled, not an easy modification, when looked back on after all the bugs have been ironed out. On the other hand, a Weekender ketch would look truly cool. A Schooner rig has been placed on a Weekender, so why not a ketch. It's not a change for the weak of heart, because there will be things that need re-engineering after you build, if no professional help is sought.
I would recommend a sprit boomed, Bermudian jigger as your mizzen, because it eliminates one or both halyards and is self vanging, making for an easy sail to handle, with three less strings to pull.
Jim's Vacationer, could tolerate a mizzen, but it quite literally is 3 times larger then your boat and the room, staying base and other issues aren't as big a deal.
If the self steering thing is the reason for the divided rig, then try the sheeting arrangements first on a stock sloop. Maybe try this on your current sailor, if none, a friends boat. It's a much cheaper experiment.
I am working on getting in touch with someone near me with a weekender to take a look at it, I do love the looks of the whole baot, I wil most likely build it to plans, but just a thought. I see the Bolger boats have a lot of mizzens and was just wondering.
I live in Springfield MO, there is someone on the builder's site in Colombia MO, but have not receved a reply.
anyway thanks for all the info.
Paul, OUTSTANDING explanation! I guess I pretty much knew all of that, but I could never have expressed it as clearly and concisely as you just did! The one thing I might add is that a common complaint of the weekender is weather helm, deservedly or not, and without moving to a balanced rudder type arrangement, perceptions of weather helm will increase once you hang another sail aft. Increasing the size of the jib to a lapper may be enough to move the balance forward.
Quote:I re-registered, then I opened the message that said read before re-registering, which was about using full names, oops. I'm Paul Riccelli, PAR is nothing more then my initials. Richard_Norman, should I re-register under my full name?
Just go to your profile and change your username.
On a boat Weekender's size, just moving the sheet from the end of the boom/transom mounting (making it farther forward a bit) can ease, what some would call weather helm or a heavy helm. This is especially true of light, small boats with a long boom. There's a lot of twisting leverage applied to the stern of the boat, which can translate into pulling this part of the boat to leeward. This causes the bow to move up into the wind and most are fighting this sensation with the helm. It doesn't mean there is excessive weather helm. What seems like weather helm can be created by over sheeting, sailing to high, sailing at high angles of heel, poor boat trim (weight in poor locations) and a few other things.
A true weather helm would be the rudder deflected at an angle of more then 5 degrees. 2 to 5 degrees is what a designer shoots for in helm balance, 2 in light air and increasing with wind strength until 5 degrees. Over 5 degrees the rudder starts acting like a brake and can also stall from a high an angle of attack, which can cause a lose of steering for a moment, until the boat rounds up and the rudder gets a new bite on the water flow.
The easy way to check the angle is to look inside the aft locker at the tiller part of the steering assembly (the arm coming through the transom) and note how far to each side it must be, to hold a straight course, while close hauled (not pinching or over sheeted, but sailing nicely with a good sail set). Maybe making a mark on the hatch opening, but other wise recording this location, then park the boat back on it's trailer. Draw a centerline on the boat (tape down a piece of paper so you don't mess up the paint) from the transom to the hatch opening. Using a straight edge, set the forward end on the mark you made on the hatch opening when sailing and the other end of the straight edge hitting both the center line of the boat and the centerline of the pintail/gudgeon (eye ball it) You should have three lines when you're done, a center line, an angle to port (port tack) and one on the starboard tack. They should be pretty close to being the same. Check them with a protractor or miter saw or what ever you have that can pick up a few degrees. If you are sailing close hauled much over 5 degrees, then you should address some helm balance issues.
That may sounds a lot more complicated then it is to do, as it took more time to describe then it does on the boat. Real weather helm is sometimes difficult for the beginning sailor to figure out. Moving the cooler full of beer closer to the first mate (so she can hand you one with less trouble) may be all that's necessary to relieve the problem. Trim in small craft is the biggest problem most boaters have. Light weight vessels are quite sensitive to weight location. A friend bought a small power boat last summer. 40 HP on a 15' boat should make this little thing get up, show its heels and dance, but for the life of him he couldn't get it to stay on plane. It would pop up, then dive (fall off) then pop up again. This is not an uncommon problem in small planning boats. He had two 8 gallon tanks mounted on either side of the outboard, right up against the transom. I moved them forward, under a midship thwart and the boat runs fine now. They only moved 3' forward, but it was enough to trim the bow down, keeping her on plane. You can actually steer a Weekender to some extent by shifting weight. Try it some time when you're out. Have your crew walk forward and see what it does to the boat's course, ditto moving from side to side and aft. Of course, the boat may seem like it's developing more or less weather helm while you're doing this, but it's really a trim issue.
For excessive weather helm, simply add a turnbuckle to the forestay and take a little rake off the mast. A common problem with these boats is not having enough tension on the forestay when being sailed by new sailors. Tighten ye spar, matey.
However, remember we want some degree of weather helm in case we get into trouble and have to blow the sheets.... we want the boat to round up, not fall off.