BYYB Forums

Just wanted to bring this to this forum. I previously posted it in a another place, and in another forum:

Quote:I have been kicking around the idea of a double headsail arrangement, in lue of a single jib, on my Weekender. Not as a replacement rigging, but as a secondary, "experimental" rigging. The stay sail would hank to a forestay run from it's typical location on the mast, to the eyebolt for the clubfoot (which I would remove). The forward sail would be a 130-140 genoa on a furler. I know opinions will vary about whether or not this is an acceptable rigging, and those opinions are welcome, but not my questions.

The questions are:

About where and how do I connect the genoa stay to the mast? Do I need to increase the height of the mast to accommodate the arrangement? If so, how do I figure out how much?

Is repositioning the forestay compromising the stability of the mast too much? Will the genoa furler be enough help in this regard?

Will I need to modify the bowsprit?

Any opinions are welcome.

Paul's answer:

Quote:Twin headsails are cute, but not particularly practical on a boat as small as Weekender. A few have done it. Of those that I know of, some have a longer sprit, others taller rigs and some have a stock size rig.

You can't furl a 140 into a working jib size and be happy with the shape and windage of the partly furled sail. A 130 can be twisted down to a 100, but not much more before you loose too much shape and pickup too much drag from the bundle around the headstay.

On a larger boat, where lugging a 100 pound sack of sail to the foredeck and hanking it on, to deal with changing wind strengths, just to remove it and drag another heavy sail to the bow an hour later, a furler makes much logic. A larger boat will have sufficient room between the headstay and babystay to permit the jib to pass around during tacks. Smaller boats will have a smaller gap between the two stays and this makes passing the clew of the jib through the gap more difficult, usually requiring a person to "walk 'er through" while on the foredeck during the tack.

There is no advantage to twin headsails, in fact they will limit the pointing ability of the boat somewhat, because of additional sheeting angles required with three sails instead of two. Then of course is some additional complication to the rig in stays, halyards, sheets, fairleads, etc., but they do look cool.

As far as strains on the mast, I don't think the Weekender rig is jeopardy of falling over. It's quite a bit over size and more then strong enough. The baby stay can attach at the same point the headstay does on the mast (coolest looking), but a better location (produces a wider gap) would be a few feet below this point. The ideal setup for twin headstays is to have them parallel to each other. You shouldn't have to move your headstay, just install the new baby stay (inner stay), blocks and line for the halyard. Many twin setups have the staysail boomed and the jib free. This arrangement has some advantages over double sheeted headsails. The staysail is self tending on the boom so you only have to worry about getting the jib around the baby stay in tacks. It should be a real boom, not a club with it's gooseneck very close to the staysail's tack. A topping lift for this boom is also a good idea (like all booms). A pelican hook is sometimes used at the deck of the baby stay, so it can be easily released and tied to the mast when just the jib is being used.

If you decide you want to move the headstay for some reason, then rework the sail plan to keep your center of effort in approximately the same location vertically. You can toss off the balance of the sail plan pretty easily if you move the CE very far forward or aft of it's current position.

This is an experiment in rigging, I plan on riggin the Weekender as per plans, then creating a second rigging just to fool aroound with. Who knows, maybe with some trial and error experience of my own, I might get to be as smart as y'all.

Not a bad idea at all. The rig on the Weekender isn't very costly. I'd opt for a bigger rig, topsail, maybe a square course, certainly a twin headsail setup. Using poly tarp sails until you got everything where it needed to be, before you sprung for real sails. It surly would be an easy way to check out options.

I do this when I'm experimenting on rig changes. In the last few years I've been fooling with headsail to mainsail relationships and this is much simplified with poly tarp material, some carpet tape and wire. Ripstop makes great spinnaker fabric and would work well on a topsail too.

Tyvek can be had around any constuction site. You can even buy it with out the print on it.... but I say who cares. "Oh look, that cute little boat is sponsored by Tyvek". :lol:

The Tyvek used as "House Wrap" has tiny perforations in it to let the house breath. This grade of Tyvek is very inexpensive, but the holes limit it's abilities as a sail for obvious reasons. There are a number of types of Tyvek (which is HDPE fabric, made by Dupont) falling into two columns, the first is type 10 and it's the stiff stuff you see in house wrap, the others are types 14 and 16, of which both are softer and typically used in protective garments. Type 10 can be had with or without the perforations and as Angie mentioned without the big Tyvek logo boldly displayed every few feet. It's a bit stretchy and will not last long in heavy winds, but can make some great experimental sails while a rig option is checked out. It isn't very UV stable (about 3 months of outdoor life) and is not affected by moisture gain (shrinking and swelling) meaning it's just as strong wet as dry. This material is commonly printed on, so you can have your own logo proudly displayed if you wish.

I've ordered from this link in the past and have referred it to others that want to make up inexpensive sails just to try out.

http://www.goodlingoutdoor.com/Tyvek.html

I'm more inclined however to use UV protected white poly tarps. They come in different weights and the light weight ones work out great for light air sails to try out ideas or to last for a season or two with care.

For a long, downwind haul (i.e. lake crossings), I have been entertaining the idea of a square sail. It has a good number of merits, especially negating the accidental jibe. And looking extra-piratey. But, being clueless to such things, I am looking for technical info.

1) How long would I make the yardarm? Is there a formula for spar length vs. LWL with regard to beam?

2) Do I need to shape the sail?

Regarding all the "non-standard" questions, I hope you all now can see why I had to quit drinking. :lol: :lol: :lol:

There are a number of "guide lines" for mounting a square course on your boat, but not easily understood through this venue. Yes, the sail should be shaped, but a bed sheet will also provide some down wind drive. The shape is necessary when you're sailing other then dead before the wind. You can carry a course well up into a close reach if properly designed and more importantly handled with understanding.

Another, easier option then hoisting a yard by manning the jeers, is to run with twin headsails. Not a cutter rig, but twin jibs, each poled away from the centerline of the boat. You'll need twin hearstays and a couple of poles, but this is easier then building a yard, rigging new halyards, jeers, braces, lifts and sheets. The twin headsail route is a favorite among deep water cruisers. No, it's not as salty as the course, but you can sail with an eye patch and wooden stump for a leg if you have an "Arrrrrrg" coming on.

If you'd like to discuss a real square course, drop me an email and I can show you what's involved.