Hey everyone, I know it's been way too long since I've been here, but here I am. Looks like there has been a lot going on since I was last here. I haven't had much time to use the boat but today I went down to get it ready for a trip and I pushed a screwdriver through the keel. Time to order up some white oak and dig out the old plans. I'm just gonna say if you want your boat to last don't glass the keel, don't build it with pine, and don't use plastic resin glue. PAR if you have any advise before I get started I'm open to ideas. I know you were working with Craig on a new keel design for his old boat. Has anyone used that design yet and if so how did it work out? The only problem I see with that design is it would make my boat too tall on the trailer for storage. I already have to take the cabin hatch off to get it in my garage.
I haven't gone over the entire boat yet, I just hope the rot is limited to the keel......now its time for a beer
Keith
Hi Keith, welcome home. The keel is an issue, if built according to the plans, as the many threads about this area over the years have proven. Of course, I've been saying don't 'glass them for years too, for some of the reasons you state, but what's done is done, so time to suck down a few cold ones, to get your mind in a better place and look at the options.
Option one is to find the rot, hack it out and back fill with a scab and thickened epoxy in the larger areas or just filler in the smaller. Doing this without removing the sheathing will be difficult, but you could just grind the corners, so the sheathing is cut, which will let moisture drain out, when it does get in. I don't like this approach as you can't see what's really going on, but it does fix what's punky now.
Removing a epoxy set sheathing isn't a fun task, but will reveal the extent of the damage. The likely locations for ingress will be the forefoot seams, fastener penetrations from the planking and the rudderhead block at the aft end. Heat can help in removing a sheathing and a heat gun can make fairly quick work of this process. Heat the area and work a putty knife under a crack or seam and when you've pried it up a little, grab it with a pair of vicegrips and pull, as the goo softens.
As to a new deadwood assembly, white (or my favorite live) oak are good choices. They're heavy, dense, rot resistant, really strong and can take all kinds of abuse. This is major surgery and if thinking about this, you might as well consider reshaping the deadwood profile to more modern thinking. The keel done for SaraLee was unique to that boat and though the new owner has the drawings, I don't know what they've done with her, since the sale.
You have a few options in regard to draft. Craig's keel had a few more inches of draft, to gain the benefits of the new profile, but it doesn't have to be any deeper. The BYYB gallery has limited bandwidth, so the drawings of various keels I've done aren't shown any more, but if you contact me by email (so I can send drawings) I can show you options in the regard.
On one keel I started, but never finished, I used the stock Vacationer draft, but reshaped profile and a fully enclosed "slice 'o pie" style centerboard, completely housed in the new deadwood assembly. The only hull penetration was a length of copper pipe (Lowe's.Depot stuff) where the hoisting lanyard will pass through the bottom planks. It comes up the aft cabin bulkhead, so not a tripping hazard and copper is easy to bond to wood plus it doesn't corrode like steel or aluminum can. The nice thing about this setup is you can sail it without the board down and she'll work fine, but if desired you can lower the board for better maneuverability, pointing ability and less leeward skid, all with the stock draft. This particular redesign uses all big box store materials too.
You know Keith, in a way you're lucky. (In another way you aren't, but hey make lemonade.) I've often thought that when "Made Merry" gets rot in her keel (none of the plywood parts are showing any signs of rot) it will be an opportunity to cut the deadwood back and try one of Paul's ideas under there instead. Ryerson Clark didn't wait for his keel to rot, he just sawed off the keel from his brand-new boat and stuck one of Paul's modifications right on there. He was happy with the modification and claimed the boat sailed better. It was hard to tell how it compared to a stock weekender because he had quite a different sail set-up than the stock version, and a different rudder, but from what I could see when we sailed together his boat sailed just fine. The modifications to the keel certainly didn't hurt. He still sails that boat and still likes it.
I think the opportunity to put that centerboard on your boat and possibly improve its handling characteristics at the same time should be viewed with enthusiasm. Well, I guess not if you're planning to go sailing tomorrow or something. But I recall Ryerson only took a weekend or two to finish re-doing his keel. It didn't seem to cramp his style at all. Don't worry. Your boat will come out even better.
Home built boats are a continuous evolution, of the things we learn and desire, from the design elements, through the execution of the build and modifications, installed afterward.
I'm not sure yet what I'm gonna,do,with,keel,design,wise. I did check prices on,some white oak today and it made me sick, if I spent $2 a foot instead of $1 a,foot for my keel lumber I wouldn't have had the problems that have plagued my vacationer since I built it. I'm tired of patching this part of the keel and squirting thin,epoxy here,there anc everywhere. It's time to cut that pine POSÂ off the boat and do it right. Now where's the sawzall!
Pine works fairly well as a deadwood assembly, assuming it's dense, preferably yellow, has a minimum of defects, quarter sawn, etc., etc., etc., all the things you look for in pieces that will be submerged and dried repeatedly. Even white oak will rot if moisture is trapped in or against it.
A saws-all is a good choice, as would be a multi tool with a straight cut blade. You'll run into fasteners, but isn't a problem, change blades or use a carbide blade.
Block the boat up on her bottom planks and it would be helpful if she was level to her actual LWL too. Once the bottom is free of her deadwood, grind down to raw 'glass and patch the area that was under the deadwood, so the bottom is all continuous 'glass. At this point a hardwood 1x4, glued and screwed to the bottom, right down the centerline is all you need to support the structure (only the clipper knee really). With the 1x4 in place (fillet to the bottom planks) you can attach anything you want in regard to a keel. You can go back to the original deadwood profile (in which case you should have trimmed the 1x4 to 2 1/4" wide) or you can think about options.
A "slice 'o pie" style of centerboard is easy and will help maneuverability a bit. There are several appendage configurations you can employ, that will offer various levels of handling improvement too. None hard to make and all can be made on the work bench and attached when finished. You can think about ballast too, which placed at the bottom of a new keel or board, makes it as effective as it can be.
With the AC thing finally coming on this weekend, how about a whole new approach to your Vacationer. I'm thinking a T shaped center appendage, say about 30" deep and a T rudder with an automatic wand to cant it fore and aft, so you can stay up on the foils. No need for carbon and Kevlar, just a big ass main foil of wood and biax and a trimming foil at the rudder. You could be the first to have a Vacationer in double digit speeds. Screaming around at 15 knots, in 10 knots of wind would be fun . . .
Since I did my capsize test I have been thinking about setting in a 150 to 200 lb lead slug in the bottom of my keel. I figure that I would place it at the bottom of the keel somewhere around the mast step. I will cast it to fit and set it in with bolts in the typical style.
I found in my test that if I simply stood on the keel with all my fighting flab, it would stand back up without me leaning back. At the very least it should keep the mast head from sticking into the bottom. I don't worry about light air performance because that amount of weight is about what another person would be which I never have, but many people do. My new lapper seems to have picked up my light air speed so it should be a wash. It should also help keep the transom from dragging around too much water.Â
AlÂ
I like the foiler idea paul, how cool would it be to see a gaffer screaming alone on foils. So I spent the day working on my Tech Dinghy, sanding the hull, stripping the hardware and getting it all ready to paint. Got a coat of varnish on the wood parts. Tomorrow I'll sand the bottom and maybe get some primer on her. Oh for anyone in the SE area there is the gathering of wooden boats up on lake nickajack just west of Chattanooga. It's the 7th annual event that the folks from the Glen-L forum put together. Im planning to be there on Thursday
the 19th. Bud Wilson usually comes by for a drink or 2, it's just a few miles from his place.
(09-07-2013, 01:55 AM)Paul Riccelli PE,NA link Wrote: [ -> ]... I'm thinking a T shaped center appendage, say about 30" deep and a T rudder with an automatic wand to cant it fore and aft, so you can stay up on the foils. . . .
Paul is leading you astray; madness lies in that direction !
First it will be one hull ...
Moth
And then two ...
C-Fly
And three ...
L'Hydropeter
Next, you will be dragging your friends along for a ride ....
Wakeboarding
When will it end?
Turn back. Turn back now, before it is too late. :o
Cheers,
Tom