BYYB Forums

Hi all,
    Since finding 1x12x14 foot clear wood with straight grain is expensive...and still has the chance of rotting/warping I was looking into plastic lumber for the keel instead.  I found EPSPlasticLumber.com, and ordered a sample of their redwood.  I am waiting on a quote for the 3 1x12x14' boards I need for the keel as well as what glue or epoxy to laminate them together.  I am not worried about fiber-glassing at all because they are plastic...  Has anyone tried this, or does anyone have any reasons why this will not work?

Regards,

    Will

The extruded plastic boards you're thinking about can't be used in this fashion. They're heavy for their strength, lack stiffness, don't glue well, don't hold fasteners well, they can be used on your porch deck, because gravity keeps them in place, but generally, these types of materials are decorative only. In other words, these materials are not structural in nature, in fact they can't even support their own weight. They're great as house siding or over closely spaced joists as decking, but cost three times as much as solid lumber of similar size and aren't load bearing.

Paul, thanks for your evaluation of my idea... Seems I will have to do as you all have done before me and order the best wood I can find instead.

Regards,

      Will

Will:  You're not going to find clear 14 ft 1X12's anywhere!  Buy some Doug fir with tight knots, planed to 3/4" and laminate your keel.  It will not warp, and all will be well.  I had 2x12 stock planed to 3/4".  The total cost for a Weekender keel (including planing) was $96.  Not cheap, but not a deal breaker either.

Dave

Thanks Dave,  I'll make note of that

Regards,

    Will

Greetings Will,

Don't you live in the Pacific Northwest?

I did a search of Google:[ everett washington lumber] and among other lumber yards found this place ...

BUSE Timber and Sales Inc.
3812-28th Place NE
Everett, WA, 98201
USA

... and the photos in the Gallery had me drooling ...



I'm guessing that you will easily be able to find Clear straight grained Douglas Fir in whatever sizes you need. 

If you do not mind driving a few miles, Bear Creek Lumber looked interesting.

Targo Woods had a really funky web site.

Oh, and I almost forgot, Glen-L builders has a list of boat friendly lumber yards in the state of Washington at
http://www.glen-l.com/resources/lumber-s...rs.html#WA
and Eden Saw advertises in The Wooden Boat.

So let's not have any more crazy talk about not being able to find decent boat building lumber. 

Cheers,
Tom

Tom:  If you know a place where we can find that kind of stock in our neck of the woods (Southeastern Wisconsin/Northwern Illinois) PLEASE let me know!

Dave

Dave,

I ordered my marine ply from california because the stuff they had locally cost more and was junk.  The shipping was $100 but I bought 10 sheets so it only added $10 a sheet which brought the cost to what I would have paid locally and it was far better quality.  Dimensional lumber is different.  There is a place locally that carries a limited supply which is of usable quality but expensive.  The stuff they showed at the Bear place link looked pretty good but again it depends on the cost.  They use have good white oak in Minnesota but it has been a while since I was there.

When looking for clear lengths of solid lumber, the best way to get them cheap, is to buy 2x10's and 2x12's from the local lumber store or big box. Get the 16' stock, as these have to come from older trees. If you look though a stack of 2x12's about every 5th one will be straight grained and every 10th one will be knot free and straight grained. Of course, most don't have a big ass (technical term) band saw to cut these down on, but most do have a table saw. A 10" table saw will usually cut about 2.5" deep (63 mm). So, you rip the 2x12 down so it's 5" (127 mm) wide, then saw it on edge one way, flip it, then the other way. With a reasonably accurate fence, you can get 5" wide 1" (.75 nominal) stock, which can be used in the deadwood assembly. Naturally, they'll need to be edge glued and you'll have more seams then if you use 1x10's or 1x12's, but this is also a good thing, as wide planks usually have heart wood, pith and other undesirables in them. When you cut the 2x12 or 2x10 down to 5", this "relieves" the wide board, of the internal defects and objectionable bits. Simply put, it's usually better if you use two 1x5's to make a 1x10, than a single 1x10. You also have the luxury of alternating the grain orientation, with the 2 smaller pieces, which helps offset any warping.

Another place to look for good materials is in the decking department. Most big box stores sell 5/4's x 6 decking stock. Sometimes it's tongue and groove, while others the edges are bull nosed (rounded over), but it's typically clear, straight grained Douglas fir or Western larch. The decking stock is often not kept with the construction grade stuff, but over in the "specialty wood" area, where they sell crappy red oak, cedar and white poplar for a lot more than it's worth.

Lastly, most real lumber stores and sometimes the big box outfits will special order stock for you. There's usually a surcharge for this, so make a big materials purchase, to justify the shipping charges. Yep, they can order marine plywood (get Aquatech as a good marine grade with a reasonable price) and other stuff, like clear, straight grain solid stock. In most every metropolitan area, there's going to be a wood mill or two. They don't advertise and they're off the beaten trail, but they'll have supplies and sources for the good stuff. Many times they'll have a log laying around with nothing to do, so you can get a real deal. I'm fortunate to have several mills in my area. You can bet I've brought over many a 6 pack to insure I can get a deal on a hunk of wood.

Greetings Dave,

Two places I have found on my own are Owl Hardwoods in Des Plaines, IL http://www.owlhardwood.com/ (2 miles north of O'Hare), and Plywood Door USA http://www.pdusa.com/ in La Grange, IL, (13 miles south of O'Hare).

Owl Hardwoods carries a wonderful assortment of Domestic hardwoods, (Alder, Aromatic Cedar, Ash, Basswood, Beech, Birch, Butternut, Cherry, Cypress Cypress, Hard Maple, Birdseye Maple, Figured Maple, Quilted Hard Maple, Hickory, Poplar, Red Oak, Big Leaf Soft Maple, Figured Soft Maple, Walnut, White Oak) ... and Imported hardwoods, (Anegre, Bloodwood, Bocote, Bubinga, Cocobolo, Ebony Gaboon, Ebony Macassar, Ebony Mun, Jatoba, Jelutong, Lacewood, Leopardwood, Lignum Vitae, Lyptus, Mahogany African, Mahogany Genuine, Makore, Figured Makore, Padauk, Panga, Pao Rosa, Rosewood Honduras, Rosewood Santos, Sapele, Spanish Cedar, Teak, Tulipwood, Wenge, Zebra Wood)  Many of the above are also available as plywoods. Unfortunately, the only marine grade plywood they carry is fir, sided A/B. All of the woods are kept inside, and I like the Des Plaines location the best as they have the longest lengths and greatest varieties. If you go, plan on spending two hours just drooling over the cedars and mahoganies.

Although not on the official list above, nor does it appear on their web site, they usually have about a thousand board feet of sitka spruce in 8 to 13 ft lengths. If you call often enough, (or stop by on your way home from work like I do) you will eventually find that they have acquired a few 15 or 16 foot long boards suitable for making spars. SCORE!

A view from inside Owl Hardwoods ...



The place is laid out like a library, with similar species of wood grouped together. Smells wonderful.

There is a shop in the back, and they can cut stock to your specifications, and of course that will cost you a few pennies.

So this is definitely the place to go to find all of the fancy trim pieces for your Vacationer build. Be sure to have a list of all of the dimensions that you are looking for ahead of time. The Mahoganies are not cheap and come in all kinds of sizes and lengths, but if you pick through the piles carefully, you should be able to find a set of boards that will allow you cut your trim pieces from with an absolute minimum of waste. But you will have to be creative in laying out the parts. Again, none of this is cheap wood, but I have not seen a finer collection anywhere.


I got my Okume plywood from Plywood Door USA, a plywood importer / wholesaler who normally deals only with businesses ordering by the pallet. But some of the office staff own boats, and if you tell them the Okume is to build a sailboat, they will deal with you individually. Their offices were located in a dome-shaped building in La Grange, and the plywood was stored in a general access warehouse a few miles away underneath the bridge where La Grange road crosses the cal sag channel. It was a little disconcerting to go pay for the plywood at the office site unseen and then go over to the warehouse with a will-call slip. However, once there, one of the forklift drivers drove out to my car with three pallets of plywood (6mm, 9mm, and 12mm) and let me pick the ones I wanted. All of the sheets were perfect (A/A, no knots, no plugs), so I picked the sheets right off the top. Okume is not cheap, but it is oh so pretty; plus the sheet sizes are metric, so they are a little larger than the standard USA size of 4x8, which gives you an extra inch or two per sheet for laying out parts. Because of this, I didn't have to make the little triangles to fill in the side panels at the transom, because the long sheets covered the entire hull.

I just checked on their web site, and it looks like they have moved their offices a few more miles south to Palos Hills. Either the rent was cheaper, or they got tired of working in a building with no square walls.



Finally, there is (84) Lumber (http://84lumber.com/). Their are fewer of them today then there used to be, and I have not visited one in some time, but you used to be able to pick through the southern yellow pine stacks and find very good straight grained quarter sawn boards in ridiculous widths, just like Paul said previously. They used to have a store in Naperville with the lumber inside, but I see that store is gone now.


The Glen-L web page http://www.glen-l.com/resources/lumber-suppliers.html also lists ...

Wisconsin

    Caledonia - Kettle Moraine Hardwoods, 195 S 27th, 414/835 9212 - L (4-00)
    Green Lake - Norton Boat Works, 535 Commercial Av, 54941 414/294 6813 - L, PW
    Hartford - Kettle Moraine Hardwoods, 5261 Aurora Rd, 53027, 414/644 8119 - L (native & mahog.)(4-00)
    Madison - McCormick Lumber, 3156 Milwaukee St, 53714 608/244 4741 - L, PW
    Plum City - Grange Hall Hardwoods, Inc., W2326 US Hwy 10, 54761, 715-647-4544 - L

Illinois

  * Arlington Heights - Owl Hardwood Lumber, 1514 E Algonquin Rd, 60005, 312/439 5580 - L
  * Des Plaines, - Owl Hardwood Lumber, 926 S. Graceland, Des Plaines, 60016, 847.824.5025 - L PW(Marine fir)
    Carterville - Chamberlain Marine, 115 Olive St, 62918, 618/985 6119 - L
    Chicago - Charles Horn Lumber, 2440 S Damen Ave, 60608 312/847 7397 - L (Sitka sp)
    Chicago - Wood World Chicago, 2460 W. George St., 60618 773/267 3800 - L, PW (Marine Grade Douglas Fir, Meranti, Okoume)
    Countryside - Plywood & Door, 6335 W Joliet Rd, 60525, 708/354 2155 - PW (Okoume)
    Glenview - Wood World, 1719 Chestnut Ave, 60025 708/729 9663 - PW, L
    Highland - Wicks Aircraft Supply (in the St. Louis metro area). - Mar PW, L (Sitka sp)
    Paris - TA Foley Lumber Co, 1800 S Jefferson, 61944, 217/462 6180 - L
    Sycamore - Hardwood Connection, 1810 W. State Street, 60178, 815-895-8733 - L

* I corrected the entry for Owl Hardwoods.

Cheers,
Tom