Heya all, I been thinkin' and just want to reassure myself that I am headed rightly.
Ok, I havent installed any of the trim or rub rails or anything to the deck walls or sides including the seat backs. The reason I did this is because I plan on glassing the whole boat. Side to side, front to back, and bottom to top, all except for the keel, I will coat it w/ epoxy, but not glass it. As I think it may be getting a change at some point soon.
I figure if I glass everything first, then install everything I will have a better seal and shell.
Also, about glassing the inside? Should I glass the walls of the cabin? Or just the floor for wear and tear, and maybe just coat everything with epoxy? Or screw it and paint it.
Thank You for yer help in advance.
Generally, if you're going to epoxy, then everything needs to be coated, including inside joints, under structural elements, especially the end grain, etc. This is encapsulation and what truly works in regard to stopping moisture from getting at wood.
If you haven't employed encapsulation techniques, then you can go both ways (I've heard this about you previously Brian), no epoxy or use the epoxy as a coating. Personally, I see no use for putting a costly coating on a hull, unless you're getting something from it. Paint, you get color and UV protection, but just epoxy alone, you get just the sealing effects, which aren't complete because of the lack of full encapsulation. So, if wanting to coat the hull, use paint and no epoxy, chasing down dings and stuff as you need to. If you want to use epoxy, apply 2 coats over the raw wood, then a light cloth (4 - 10 ounces) which will offer some abrasion protection.
Thousands of boats have not a drop of epoxy on them and they've survived just fine. This said, you can get some great gains from epoxy, but usually it takes a commitment, from the beginning to get the best from it. As an after thought you have extra work making fillets to seal areas up that wouldn't normally need a fillet, coating inside, outside, everything. A big decision in work and cost. If done well, you can get all the benefits of epoxy (stabilized, sealed wood), but again it's a big decision. If done haphazardly, you'll trap moisture in areas where it can't readily get out, which causes issues.
If I was you, I'd tape the seams (epoxy), but just let the rest of the hull go with light fairing and paint. This is the cheapest way to get a sealed up hull (taped seams) with simple maintenance (painted surfaces) and leaves future options wide open if you want to change stuff.
I am glassing everything except the keel, hull, top, sides, and such. I figure with my poor choice of keel wood, and not really knowing about encaptulation, and epoxy when I put it together. I used plastic resin glue to lay up my keel. So it wont be totally encapsulated. I figure I'll get the boat in the water with what I have already, and play a while. But know that I will put another keel on day, and I will encapsulate the wood for sure when I do make it.
I do want the hull, sides, and top glassed for sure. I have I think it's 8 ounce cloth, should I layer it?
I will be glassing the top side of the boat very soon. All I have to do is cut out the hatches I drew on the other nite and some fine sanding.
I was wondering if I should bother glassing the inside of the boat, (I do plan on glassing the floor of the cabin for wear and tear) but I was wondering about the sides they will be completely be behind the cabinets and such so should I bother of just coat with epoxy, and paint the walls.
I'm mainly not glassing the keel, as alot of folks have had trapped water issues, so I figure if it will help drain out water maybe it will last a while.
I do have an aluminum shoe for the bottom of the keel for impact and beaching
On the inside of the cabin, the sole is a good place for 'glass, but everything else can just get coated with epoxy, to save some trouble and money. The cockpit seat tops and sole are obvious places for 'glass as they receive a lot of wear and tear. The decks and the rest of the "weather" portions of the exterior hull shell will also benefit from it. You don't need more then one layer, unless you plan on being quite rough with this puppy.
Light weight 'glass fabrics don't add any real strength, but do help abrasions resistance and waterproofing. You need a good bit of cloth or directional fabrics, to gain appreciable amounts of strength and stiffness (over 18 ounces), so these light sheathings (especially cloth) are just to protect the wood.
The biggest thing I see novice builders do is skimp on film thickness. Tests show you need at least 9 - 10 mils of epoxy on a wooden surface, to really prevent moisture from getting in and causing issues. This is why I always say 3 coats (so do the major epoxy formulators). The first coat gets sucked up in many places, looking almost untouched when dry, while other areas show some shine from the first coat. The second coat usually makes the whole surface shinny, meaning it's fully coated, but the formerly dry areas have a real thin coating, so a third coat insures you've got sufficient film thickness to prevent moisture vapor penetrating the coating.
With this knowledge in hand, you can control the wood's moisture content and keep it below the threshold where bad things happen. For example, if your wood was 12% moisture content before the epoxy went on, then you immersed it in water for a month, you'd gain a couple of percent in moisture. This will jack the wood's moisture content into the 14 - 15% range, which is below the 17% - 18% limit where things start to go bad for wood. This is where other coatings fail, as they let in more moisture vapor over time, which causes the wood to swell over the 18% barrier and rot, mold and other things start to occur. In short, if you can keep the wood, preferably below 15% moisture content, but at least below 18% it will not swell, contract or offer an internal environment that rot and little beasties like to live in. We call this "stabilized" because the wood remains the same dimensions and weight.
Brian, all good advice from Paul. To help with your decision I glassed the entire outside of the hull and everything in the cockpit. In side the cabin she got two coats of paint. My dink is getting taped seams with two coats of glass, a seal coat over everythng, fairing where nedded and a last coat of Poxy. No overall sheeting but the stem and forward area of the bow back a coyple feet are glassed. The interior gets taped seams and a couple coats of glass overall, then paint. As usuall for me this is over kill for a boat that gets cut in half but I just can't get away from the German in me. So far I have not used any cement but the urge is strong!
 When you glass the deck run the cloth right up to the top of the bulkworks. That deck hull joint is problematic abd must be sealed very well. A couple extra scuppers aft of the chain plates about two feet will keep your butt dry.
Craig has brought up a good point about weather deck sheathings. This is a common, problematic area and many boats suffer from poor applications. The usual problem is the bulwark traps moisture on deck, be this this simply morning dew or a boarding wave. If the sheathing is on the deck, but not the bulwarks, than the interface between the two is where moisture will have easy access, generally into end grain too.
The usual solutions are: make separate bulwarks or sheath both in one shot, making a continuous moisture barrier. I like the separate bulwarks method myself, as it allows the removal (repair or replacement) of the bulwarks, but some designs don't permit this without modifications. If making separate bulwarks, then sheath the deck and wrap the cloth around the deck edge, hiding this cloth edge under the rub rail (which caps it). Next attach the bulwarks, using epoxy bonded faster holes, to insure no moisture can get in and piss you off a few years down the road.
If you aren't using separate bulwarks, then bring the cloth across the deck and up the inside face of the bulwark (like Craig suggests). Ideally, you should have a cap on your bulwark and the edge of the cloth can be hidden under it. If no cap then wrap the cloth around the top of the bulwark (sightly) so water can't get it there. This forms a plastic swimming pool on the foredeck, but the sheathing will keep moisture away from the wood. Drains and limbers are necessary and these should be cut slightly over size, filled with epoxy then recut to the actual dimensions, again to prevent moisture from getting at the wood the you've labored, bled and cursed over so much.
Keep in mind the cabin side will have a similar issue, so bring the sheathing up the sides a little. Anything that penetrates the deck (mooring post, mast, etc.) also should have some sort of "lip" to prevent moisture from getting at it. Masts are best treated with a boot, but fixed items, such as the mooring post can have the same treatment as the cabin sides. When considering this, picture the whole foredeck with plugged up drains and limber holes, holding water. Where's it going to try to get in.
i am going to use that, i have no rubrails attatched just yet as I want to completely cover the boat in glass. the vacationers bullworks are just an extention of the sides, but it is the side pannel of the boat so i really like coming off the deck with the glass up the bullwork and a little over the side, then i will put the rub rails and cap on. in fact i havent put any trim on:hatch frames, port holes, rubrails ...
I want to make sure the whole boat is covered before i install these things, then i will cover what is not finnished bright on the trim as well.
Brian: Have you considered trimming off the bulwarks, rounding the point where the deck meets the hull and installing a open toerail? We love the toerail on our Weekender! Not only can we tie fenders, lines etc to it, but it allows water to drain from the deck surface easily. Plus it's salty as hell!
Dave
Dave That's the way I've done many bulwarks over the years. It's easier to install, doesn't create a natural water trap between hull shell and deck, permits a sheathing to wrap over the deck edge, etc. I usually use hunks of 2x4 as supports, which are fastened from below and the actual rail or bulwark is screwed from above. On bigger boats I use metal brackets to attach the rail to the supports for a cleaner look.
This is one of my designs with that type of rail. It uses 1.5" tall hunks of 2x4 and two 1x4's set on edge attached to to them, making a 4.5" tall bulwark that drains easily, lets you tie off anything, like headsail snatch blocks, fenders, temporary vangs, jibe preventers, etc.
If you look carefully to the sail plan (black and white at the bottom) the rail has holes in some of the bases, to feed lines through, but remain "captured".
Truthfully I had given it some thought before dave, but truly couldent visualise it in my head, but, pauls drawing looks really
nice, I may have to give it a rethink. I do like the looks of the bullworks on the vac' as is, and had some cool ideas for them, but this is a possability? ya nevah know.