BYYB Forums

Hi,

I have been fooling a bit with Epoxy, mostly to get a feeling for the stuff, while waiting for the garage I need to  build that Super Skipjack. So far I have glued a keel plank for my 1:10 model, and then I was experimenting with laminating leather for a bracelet, just to see if that works (yes, works fine. Makes a material that looks like leather, but is stiff like plastic).

I noticed a small rash - or rather a few small blisters, up to a mm wide, slightly itchy. They were in an unlikely place, on the sides of both my middle fingers. And a few individual blisters in the matching sides of the index fingers, and on one spot on my wrist, near the thumb.

I wonder if that is the beginning of an allergic reaction to Epoxy. So far I have used minimal amounts of the goo, typically mixing 0.2 ml of hardener with 1 ml of resin, some times half or double of that. (I don't know what that would be in US units. 20 drops? quarter teaspoon?). I have been wearing latex gloves, but not been overly careful about not touching the goo while it is setting. I've used a small set of West System 105 resin and 205 hardener, and some fillers that came with the packet.

I am taking a couple of weeks break from Epoxy anyway (I'll use cyanoacrylate or other glue for the model anyway). But I can't help wondering

• Is this a reaction is to the epoxy, or something unrelated, and how can I know for sure?
  
• Is it likely that I can work with the goo, if I take sufficient precautions?
  
• Are there less allergenic epoxies or hardeners available. How would I know which one to get
  

In the worst case, I plan to build the Super Skipjack completely without Epoxy. The plans mention glassing as an option, and actually recommend good paint instead. I guess I can use some other adhesive for the construction as well, although epoxy seems to be considered the best.

I've met very few people that became instantly sensitized to epoxy, but there are some, of which you may be. Most people in this category also have allergies to other things, typically alkaline in nature.

Naturally, solid protection procedures need to be rigidly adhered to or you can have a reaction. In most cases sensitivity can be traced back to poor epoxy use procedures.

I had a similar experience with little bumps on my fingers. They would itch slightly and swell a little too. I could pop them like a zit, which I enjoyed, but it was a bothersome issue, that was getting worse. I thought I'd worked with epoxy for too many years and I was just due, but it was in fact the choice of gloves I'd been using. Since I buy gloves in bulk I'd been using the same brand for many months. Once I figured this out, switched to a new brand of better quality, the problem slowly went away over a few months. I do miss popping the little bumps, but it was uncomfortable sometimes.

In short, go over your procedures and make sure you're not contaminating yourself or reacting to a solvent or other material (like gloves). You should never use a solvent on your skin, it just makes things a whole lot worse.

(10-12-2011, 02:16 AM)Paul Riccelli PE,NA link Wrote: [ -> ]I've met very few people that became instantly sensitized to epoxy, but there are some, of which you may be. Most people in this category also have allergies to other things, typically alkaline in nature.

Naturally, solid protection procedures need to be rigidly adhered to or you can have a reaction. In most cases sensitivity can be traced back to poor epoxy use procedures.

I had a similar experience with little bumps on my fingers. They would itch slightly and swell a little too. I could pop them like a zit, which I enjoyed, but it was a bothersome issue, that was getting worse. I though I'd worked with epoxy for too many years and I was just due, but it was in fact the choice of gloves I'd been using. Since I buy gloves in bulk I'd been using the same brand for many months. Once I figured this out, switched to a new brand of better quality, the problem slowly went away over a few months. I do miss popping the little bumps, but it was uncomfortable sometimes.

In short, go over your procedures and make sure you're not contaminating your self or reacting to a solvent or other material (like gloves). You should never use a solvent on your skin, it just makes thing s a whole lot worse.

Thanks for the reassuring words. I don't have any other known allergies, but I have had one episode of similar blistering many years ago, after a trip to Finland. It got so bad that the whole skin was peeling off from my fingers. I never figured out what caused it, but it went away with proper medication, and eventually fresh skin grew...

I have just used up my first batch of gloves, and opened a new bag - also cheap latex ones from the grocery store, but a different brand. I will try to get some better quality, maybe even nitrile gloves which are said to offer better protection, if I can find them here.  I am not using any solvents, and I know to use vinegar (or lemon juice) to clean my hands after contact.

Anyway, I have now learned to be much more careful with the goo. If this turns out to be a false alarm, I learned that lesson cheaply.

I guess I need to make another experiment some time after these blisters have healed...

I know several people that are allergic to latex. It could be as simple as just a different set of gloves.

Terve Heikki

( Sorry for peoples who dount understand finih - but its so mutch easy to write.. )

Tein Weekenderin Sp106 epoksilla ja projektin puolivälissä alkoi käsiin tulla näppyjä  - käytin kumihanskoja, mutta en ollut
kovin huolellinen epoksin käsittelyssä joten sitä tuli välillä paljaille käsille ym. Sitten näpyt ( nokkos ihottuma ) levisi muuallekin
kohtiin mitkä ei saanut edes kosketusta. Jalata ja maha oli ihan punaiset ja kutisi perkeeleesti noin viikon verran. Lekurit ei uskonut
selitystä epoksista vaan ehkä jokin reaktio pesuaineell yms.

No pidin paussia, mutta aina silloin tällöin allergia tuli ja hulluksi oli tulla aina kun se iski. Nykyisin koetan välttää epoksin käyttämistä
mahdollisuuksien mukaan. Veneissä teen vain kittaukset ja imeytän vanerin pintaan vähän, muuten tulee hulluksi. Epoksi maaleista ei ole
allergista reaktiota tullut ja olen kokeillut eri merkkejä. Aina ei allergista reaktiota tule, mutta jos teen useana päivänä peräkkäin isoja liimauksia
niin aika varma on että tulee. Ja kun sitä  osaa jo pelätä niin tulee valmiiksi jo ennen käyttöä vaino harhainen olo. Joten liimauksessa käytän soudal purocol
uretaani liimaa, sikaflexia tai titepond III liimoja ja kuiduttaessa polyesteri hartsia ja päälle topcoatia.Mun kokemukseni mukaan vaneri ei kestä veden alla
pinnan halkeamatta, jos pintaa ei kllästä kevyesti epoksilla ( pikkaisen vain kaataa pintaan ja levittää lastalla ) tai sitten epoksi maali veden alapuolisille oisille -
esim. Hempell light primer.

Meillä töissä yksi kaveri on ollut vene tehtaallä töissä ja siellä käytettiin epoksia. Sanoi että yksi kaveri tuli niin allergiseksi että naapa pamahti ihan punaiseksi
kun epoksi purkki edes avattiin samassa huoneessa.

Perttu

(10-12-2011, 03:21 PM)Paul Riccelli PE,NA link Wrote: [ -> ]I know several people that are allergic to latex. It could be as simple as just a different set of gloves.

Could be, although I have used latex gloves before with no ill effects. Glad my fetiches don't run in that direction ;-)

(10-12-2011, 08:31 PM)Perttu Korhonen link Wrote: [ -> ]( Sorry for peoples who dount understand finih - but its so mutch easy to write.. )

Thanks, Perttu. I assume you read English all right, since you are on this board... I'll answer in English, so that others can read too.

Nice way you have found to minimize the use of epoxy. But I wonder when you say that you don't find that plywood will last underwater without a light epoxy coating. What kind of plywood are you talking about here? And are you talking about a boat that lives in the water, or one that gets pulled out of the water between uses? What kind of damage do you see?

Good to know that so-called epoxy paints are not nearly as allergenic. If I understand right, they don't use the same strong activators as laminating epoxies.

Although I am not (at all) sure if this is epoxy allergy or something totally unrelated, I will be very careful from now on.

Greetings Perttu,

The Google Translator does a good enough job translating Finih, but it seams to me that there are some words in Finih that do not translate at all.

Quote:I did a Weekend Erin Sp106 epoxy and the project began in mid-to come into the hands of näppyjä - I used rubber gloves, but I was not very careful handling the epoxy so that it came between the bare spots on the hands, etc. Then (nettle rash), spread to other parts of points which did not even touch. Jalata and the stomach was all red and itchy perkeeleesti about a week. Lekurit did not believe explanation, but perhaps one of the epoxy reaction pesuaineell etc.

Well, I liked taking a break, but every now and then allergy became insane and had to come whenever it is struck. Today, I try to avoid the use of epoxy as far as possible. The boats do just Filling and imeytän plywood surface a little, otherwise you will go crazy. Epoxy paints are not an allergic reaction to come and I've tried different brands. It is not always an allergic reaction should not, but if I make several consecutive days of gluing large so pretty sure that will be. And when it already knows how to be afraid to be completed before the use of paranoid feeling. So I use bonding Soudal purocol urethane adhesive, Sikaflex or titebond kuiduttaessa III, adhesives, and polyester resin, and on top of topcoatia. Mun my experience, the plywood will not last under water surface cracking, if the surface is lightly kllästä epoxy (pikkaisen just pour the surface and spread with a spatula), then an epoxy paint, or water alapuolisille oisille - for example, Hempel Light Primer.

We have one guy at work has had a boat at the factory work, and there used epoxy. Said that one guy was so allergic to that naapa slammed pretty red when the epoxy can not even opened in the same room.

With so many words missing from the vocabulary, maybe there is a part time job opportunity with Google to clean up their Finih dictionary?

Cheers,
Tom

P.S. How is you schooner build going?

(10-13-2011, 03:02 AM)tombayus link Wrote: [ -> ]Greetings Perttu,

The Google Translator does a good enough job translating Finih, but it seams to me that there are some words in Finih that don't translate at all.

Very funny! There are some typos it can not guess, and Perttu uses some words that are not in official dictionaries, but commonly used among the people... Most of them should be guessable from the context, but just to be helpful, here is my translations:

näppyjä blisters
Jalata  Misspelling of 'Jalat' - feet.
perkeeleesti  - 'like hell' is a mild approximation of this term ;-)
Lekurit - common variant of 'lääkärit' - doctors
pesuaineell - should be 'pesuaineelle', detergent/soap
imeytän - something like 'let it absorb into', or 'treat' the surface
kuiduttaessa - literally something like 'while fibering'. Here 'glassing'
Mun - My (There is a 'my' in the text after this word. Complex Finnish structure)
kllästä - Should be 'kyllästä'. literally 'saturate', but here 'cover' or 'treat' would be better
pikkaisen - 'little bit' (how did google miss this)
alapuolisille oisille - should be 'osille'. 'underwater parts'
naapa - should be 'naama'. Face. (I guess)

And just so that I won't be seen picking only on Perttu's typing, the language is called Finnish, not Finih.

Finally, the Internet tradition is that when pointing out speeling erorrs, one is sppuosed to mkae sme rrrrs of ons onw.

Hi

Sorry that I did not write it to eglish at first point ( I am on work and not suppose to be on internet... )

Heikki - I have found small splitting on plyfoods surface vaneer when I havent epoxy coat or epoxy paint my boats. I dount keep boats on water,
but two days trip and bottom of my boat ( not my weekender ) was looking bad. The paint was splitting here and there - not big but you cound guess, that
water has gone thru. So I sand the bottom - dry the surface veneer -( It looked good ) Epoxy threadet it and painted with epoxy paint - never since that problem.

Same happened to my Storer´s quick canoe, but I dount mind that. I hope to burn it later when it is on too bad condition.
I try to coat one canoes bottom with poly uretan resin ( as test, that would it harden the plywoods surface - I know that it is not the best sealant....) and paint it, but It was not good
solution. So now I do the light epoxy coat and epoxy primer. Another issue is to find epoxy free putty that least under water.....

Now I try to build small and fast build boats so it is not so bid deal it they soak a bit of water.....
At the momonet I am building a very stubid thing - but funny. Actually its a carawan ( lika terdrop trailer )- but I want ,that it can bu used on small water trips too...
Not very serious projeckt




( I am not the fellow who is buildig the shooner - Timo Knuutila - I sold my left over epoxy storage to him! )

Thanks
Perttu