BYYB Forums

Since my Arwen thread had reached its third page and had gone off in a new direction, I thought I'd start a new one.

Anyway, I've hit one of those dreaded building plateaus where there is not a lot of visible progress being made and it's hard to get motivated.  I've been there before on other boats, so I know that you just have to keep plugging away.  I laid some tapes the other day, and it went well. 

I've pretty much decided to go with the frame-type lazarette structure, although I'm not sure if I will square off the deck back there or just keep it rounded.  Seating space really isn't an issue since with tiller steering, I'll be sitting farther forward anyway. 

My plan at the moment is to go with a mast stub permanently attached to the boat and something related to the hinge arrangement in the plans.  The actual mast will most likely be birdsmouth.  I want to get all of that made and installed (the lower part, that is) before putting on the sides for easier access.

Kurt

kurt

i decided to open up the lazarette and took mikes advice. i left 4" (approx) around the opening on all sides, still used the 1/4/" plywood. the result is a huge opening, easy access , i'll try to post a picture asap. i also went with a flatter transom, i just didn't like the stress that was obvious on the wood forcing it into that curve, i was able to bend it with a ratchet strap, but just didn't feel comfortable forcing it that much .

My boat is 8 yrs old, been to Mexico and back on a trailer, use it every week. Saw kerfs and epoxy works GREAT! I don't care what is said about it, it works fine. And now you have a flat butt on your boat. Sorry Warren

Mine looks good too after 8 years. And I never did build a birdhouse.

The curved panels are an integral part of a design using plywood.  Certainly flat panels are easier to work with and you don't need to "stress" them by forcing them into curved shapes.  But....the curved shapes are what contribute to the overall strength of the entire hull.  If you take a flat panel and apply weight on the flat surface until it breaks, you will find that it doesn't take much to break it.  However if you "stress" it into a curved configuration when attaching to the other curved panels it will carry a great deal more weight and resist impact far greater than the flat panel under any circumstances.  The hatch covers are 1/4" plywood as are the sides and the seat fronts, etc.  The seat fronts are strong because the majority of the stress is from above and you have the panel on edge.  The hatch covers are curved ontop.  They will hold up a considerable amount of weight and resist impacts far better than a flat panel.
The compound curves , fore to aft and from side to side on the transom give this portion of the boat incredible strength and impact resistance.  And yes, many builders have had to use straps or other aids to bend those panels to the shape that is needed.  Wait until you need to bend the cabin top on two different planes to attach it.  If it isn't done per the plans, it may not have the strength to serve its function or hold up a person standing or landing on it.

So you might just consider why these boats work so well as they do with minimal materials. They have proven to do what they are designed to do and they work well.  The majority of the owners that follow the plans and build it per the drawings and videos tend to have a project that will sail pretty darned well with minimal expense and a short learning curve for a novice builder.

But the choices are always yours.  It is your project and your money.  So no matter what anybody tells you including  the "experts" you can do it anyway you want.  Just remember if you change how it is built, it may not work as designed either.  So be prepared for issues you may not be able to easily deal with.  And the learning curve may get a lot longer.

There will always be those that will build it for less, use lesser quality or inferior materials and not follow the plans reagardless of the potential safety issues or longevity issues.  I've seen a lot of these abandoned and rotting in the brush because the builder didnt' care or cut too many corners.  some of them were so unsafe to be on that I can't imagine what they were thinking. But then it is always builders choice.  They can be a great project and with a little care can last many years and bring a lot of enjoyment to the builder.

Barry;

i couldn't agree more. i thought alot before i decided to "flatten" things out. in my case, i realized that along the way, i must have made a few small errors that compounded into the shape at the stern being far to extreme and requiring me to bend things way more then the plans call for, or the wood could accept. as a result, i made a choice to "work with the wood" and move forward. but you make valid points and i do agree. hope it doesn't bite me in the as* 

Just to get the discussion rolling again . . .

As I think about all the things I want to do before attaching the hull sides, the mast/mast structure comes to mind.  I like the hinged mast because of the ease of trailer-ability it adds; Arwen will be almost exclusively a daysailer.  If I go that way, I will go with a mast "stub" permanently installed from hinge point down to keel, and sealed well at deck level to avoid the water intrusion issues others seem to have had.  Another alternative I'm considering is a deck-stepped mast, with compression structure between the underside of the deck and the keel.  The mast--whether the upper part on the hinged mast or the whole thing on the deck-stepped--will be hollow (birdsmouth or similar). 

Any and all views are welcome!

Kurt

Deck-stepped would be a pain, in my mind, as the tabernacle is SO handy. I know that (when in practice) I could go from untying the boat to in the water in just under ten minutes. A lot of that was because the mast was/is supported and held in good control by the hinging system. I would not, personally, want to deal with flailing around with stepping a mast.

Just my experiences: The nice thing about all of our boats is we tend to set them up as we want to for ourselves, and that is great!

Mike

Greetings Kurt,

The fleet at our local sailing pond includes Buccaneers, Mutineers, Hobie Cats, a Classic Com-pac Yacht, a West Wight Potter, and my favorite a Paceship. The boats are not allowed to be left in the water overnight. All of these boats have tall masts that need to be stepped. None of them can be setup or dismantled in anything less than 45 minutes. That's 45 minutes before you sail, and then another 45 minutes afterward, or 90 minutes total.

Here is Captain Chuck's Paceship, the Eloise ...



Setting her up involves unstrapping the mast from the mast support on the trailer, sliding the mast backwards to mate the mast base with the mast step via a hinge pin, untangling the shrouds, stays and halyards, lifting the mast to vertical, attaching the forestay to the stem, tightening the shrouds, attaching the boom to the gooseneck, attaching the topping lift to the bail on the end of the boom, attaching the main halyard to the head of the mainsail, threading the sail into the sail track on the mast while hoisting the main, attaching the jib halyard to the jib, attaching the jib tack to the stem, attaching the twin sheets to the jib clew, threading the jib sheets through their stopper blocks, attaching the cunningham to the boom, attaching the vang to the boom, threading the mainsheet through the transom and boom blocks and then down to the ratchet block on the cockpit floor, hanging the rudder, and finally setting the colors. It is a royal pain in the backside, (sometimes literally) and is pretty much the same on all of the above mentioned boats.

The above photograph of the Eloise was taken late on a Saturday afternoon while her captain was ashore drinking the last of the rum. Apparently he required some "fortitude" before he would even think about starting the hour-long chore of putting her away.

Even the Lasers and Sunfish with their unstayed pole masts take a good 20 minutes to set up.

Compare all of that work to the setup tasks of a Com-pac Sun Cat where you unzip the mast cover, raise the mast on its hinged tabernacle, attach the forestay, hang the rudder, and ... you are done.  The Weekender will be the same.  The difference is that everything stays attached where it belongs, with the sails bent to the spars, halyards and sheets attached to the sails and threaded through their blocks, boom attached to the mast, etc.

Ninety minutes of setup and tear-down time is a big bite out of the time available for weekday sailing after work.  Forty five minutes of tear down on a Saturday might not sound too bad, but you will quickly reconsider that notion the first time a thunderstorm pops as Thor plays with Mjollnir. It is and ugly feeling to be handing a long aluminum spar when there is lighting flashing in the distance.

Go with the Tabernacle.

Cheers,
Tom

Thank you for the input so far, guys.

I own a Catalina 22, which we used as a trailer sailor for the first few years we had her, so I'm familiar with long set-up/take down times.  But with the Weekender, I really don't see any difference between the hinged mast and the deck stepped one.  With both, you leave everything in place, disconnect the forestay, leave the shrouds attached, pull a pin that lowers the mast, and place the mast on it's supports (two in the case of the whole mast--fore and aft).  The only differences would be where the pin to be pulled is and the fact that the whole mast will be longer.  The shorter mast and lighter birdsmouth construction would make the mast a lot easier to handle than my 25 foot aluminum monster on the Cat.

Good points by everyone, though!