BYYB Forums

In another thread, about spring blocks, a discussion was arising about how the rig is, uh, "rigged". I don't personally like the single-sheet club boom on the jib. Paul Ricelli commented that he does not like all the lines in the cockpit. Let's talk about ways we have improved/modified our rigging to suit personal taste. I personally think installing reefing points and two sheets on my jib, doing away with the club, are the two biggest safety and handling improvements I've made on my boat. Right now my halyards are cleated to the mast, but I was thinking about running them aft. Now I am thinking about not doing that. I presently don't like the fairlead/cleat arrangement I have for my jibsheets, but I can't think of a better way to do it. Ryerson Clark has a Lug rig with a roller-furling jib.

Let's discuss this. Rigging can be confusing for a boat builder who is just finishing his boat.

My recommendation is to rig it as shown in the plans initially.  Unless you have a good amount of experience in small boats and are used to how they handle in general and with specific rig types that have worked well for you then don't mess with what works for a new to you design.  Lots of others have used this configuration and learned how to get them to work for them and most will tinker with them a little after they learn the basics.
But here is my point.  If you don't know how it is supposed to work, how will you be able to evaluate what may or may not have worked in modifying it to something that you are not familiar with anyway?  I've seen a lot of new to sailing and small boat sailing that are trying to learn how to sail and when the boat heels over the first time they nearly panic or in some cases really panic and are worried that they are going to turn over.  They are not familiar with what makes a boat move at all points of sail or how to control it as yet.  And they may or maynot have a buddy that has had some small boat experience and most probably won't understand a gaff main or a clubfooted jib.  Let alone how to tack and handle the sheets under varying conditions in a small  boat without a centerboard.
So... the question remains, why would anyone want to try to figure out what works and what doesn't work with a modified rig?  Most likely when the wind gets a bit fresher and things get a little more than moderate conditions, how are they going to react when they don't understand how the basic configuration works or doesn't work. Or why.
My recommendation is to build it as designed, rig it as designed and go sailing for at least a season, not just one or two outings.  As designed with hardware store blocks, lines and fittings, it will sail just fine and you will learn what and how this Weekender can get you around.  Yes, it will be easier to work with better blocks, and better quality lines and fittings designed for sail boats but if you stick to the basics, you will learn to maximize what this boat is capable of under varying conditions and more than likely have a really good time doing it.  When you have a number of outings under your belt, can tack well in all wind conditions, keep the boat upright and under control at all points of sail under a wide variety of conditions from whispers to gusts and then to steady moderate winds with gusts and have good control you can consider what may work better or make it easier with improved performance. 
No matter what you may try to do, someone else has already been there and more than likely with a lot more experience discarded most of the modifications a "new" to this type of rig and small boat handling will try.  So...why waste a lot of time, futility in what you may try and get frustrated or in trouble and spend a lot of money doing it plus drilling a whole lot of new holes in the beautifully finished Weekender you've just built.  I've seen a whole lot of  "original " ideas that have been tried and discarded, simply because they don't work any better or in a lot of cases are far beyond the abilities of the new owner and sailor.  I've seen them built really cheap, and really expensive, finished pretty ugly and finished to furniture grade finishes and not used because they might get scratched.  And some of the less expensive rigging that was carefully chosen will work as well as a lot more expensive "boating hardware" but may not last nearly as long or simply be a good match for all of the rest of the materials in the rigging. 
Does boat line outperform hardware store line?  Generally yes; provided it is run thru smooth well installed blocks, fairleeds, etc.  Can you get by without cam cleats?  Yes, but not without some safety issues in some functions  where they may not be a good choice or you can't really tie off to a horn cleat and make it work.  Can you get by with home made blocks?  Sometimes!  But most of the homemade ones don't function as smoothly or have good pivoting or swinging attachments.  Often times the hardware store line with a poorly built or designed block will prevent the line from moving freely when it needs to be.  Often hardware store line will twist and bind up on sheets and halyards leaving you with at the least frustrated handling and at worst flat out dangerous conditions.  Some functions need a single with a becket and tieing off to the mount of the block keeps things from functioning smoothly.  Not many homemade blocks can do that well.

I guess the main advantage of working with how it was designed is that the learning curve tends to be a lot smoother and quicker than trying to work with something that may have inherent problems from the word go.  Getting out and back safely is the primary bottom line to learning how to handle any boat without getting anyone hurt or putting anyone in harms way.  There will be plenty of time to learn about modifications that do work and are well proven.  Especially for local conditions not necessarily those of others under entirely different conditions.  Most modifications are recommended by people with no real experience but they saw it somewhere and thought it was cool so why not let someone else with no experience try it and find out it doesn't work and if they are in danger, then that was their problem for trying it.

The entire idea is to learn to have a good time with the best results possible.  After a couple seasons of sailing you will learn that this or that may make it perform better from someone that has proven it in similar conditions and with similar experience levels. 
Good example is that I sail in Puget Sound with strong currents, gusty wind conditions and starting early in the day just ghosting about while everyone else is just sitting.  And by late afternoon we may need to be reefed down with a standard jib instad of the lapper we use most of the time.  I use roller furling jibs because I can handle them far easier with inexperienced crews and makes changing a jib a simple job.  I use a clubfoot that is self tending with the standard jib and a reefed down main when it gets a bit beyond moderately heavy conditions.  And we stay out late most of the time so we go thru tidal changes and change directions in the currents sometimes two times in an outing.  I have my halyards led back to the cockpit on the cabin roof so that all of them will be within reach and I can still be in the cockpit to pay attention when things get dicey.  I use good lines, good blocks, good cleats, fairleads, pay attention to how they are rigged and attached and the routing of the lines so that I don't have issues in moving about the boat when I need to leave the cockpit.  I have the standard jib attached along with the lapper.  If I need to douse the lapper It rolls up with the furling gear and a second halyard swings the standard jib up and it is ready to go.  Don't have to leave the cockpit to use either.  Can reef down without leaving the cockpit.  Why?  Because I"ve been doing it for a long time and I know how to make use of them and control them and when to respond one way or the other.  But I"ve tried a whole lot of the alternatives and "new" ideas, only to reject most of them because they are not an improvement over what I do already.  I leaned how to tune the rigging for all conditions while on the water.  What works and what doesn't and why. 

So...that is one way to approach it.  There are a lot of others and most are at least somewhat valid.  But not necessarily in a different set of conditions.  So...find out what works in your conditions not in mine or someone elses.  Don't be in a hurry to have things finalized, because they never will be.  Learn what the limitations are in your own boat and in yourself and those that go out with you before you decide to modify things.

I couldn't have said it better, except to say, it's okay to let the rig evolve naturally. You'll try things, invent things, see something interesting and give it a shot, just to find out you don't like it nearly as much as you though you might. This is perfectly natural and the reasonable evolution of a sailor's rigging preferences.

An old boat builder told me it takes 3 years to get your boat set up the way you like, I find this pretty accurate from our experience.  My halyards, jib and main, run from the base of the mast on spring blocks to cleats just forward of the hatch cover when opened.  Easy to reach standing in the cabin hatch opening.

I would like to run my halyards back to some point on the roof. I don't have trouble raising and lowering but I do have difficulty leaning forward to tie them up or untie them while sailing alone. The reason I haven't found a place yet to do this is, I don't want rope everywhere and I like having it coiled up by the mast. Also I would like to put cam cleats somewhere for the jib sheets: The jam cleats I have are wearing out because when I pull on the sheet it rubs the edges of the cleat. I can almost picture having a little drum like the winches on a bigger boat right beside the corner of the cabin bulkhead, with a cleat right behind it, on each side. Then I could cleat the jib sheet on the back corner of the cabin. Right now I have to lean to the leeward side of the boat to cleat the jib, which is irritating when the boat is heeling. Having a crew member makes this all a lot easier of course. A winch would be ridiculous but a little drum to pull the sheet around so you can hang onto it while sitting on the opposite side would be kind of neat. It looks like the latest boat built by Peter Stevenson has something like that.

The reason I am glad I did away with the club is that I've noticed that I sail alone a lot, and I have been finding it very handy to be able to pull the foresail over to the "wrong" side. Around the dock sometimes you can do this to cause the boat's nose to swing a particular way, I've even used this to back away from the dock. Also, out in the lake I've found it handy to heave-to by backing the jib and loosing the main sail, then steering slightly into the wind, the boat will just sit there creeping slightly forward and sitting perfectly level no matter what speed the wind is at. Near the dock you can do this to slow down and swoop onto the dock looking like you know what you're doing. One time I even did this when a surprise Thunder cloud popped up, I set the sails like this and cowered in the cabin while the storm went by. The boat just floated around in circles as the wind swung around, and I was fine. This works great when you want to leave the tiller for a second to reef the main sail, or to get a beer or even take a leak, although there are other reasons you want to be careful when doing that. I think if you sail in anything but benign conditions you should have a foresail controlled with two sheets.

Not to mention, the performance is noticeably better than when I had the club on the sail. It fills better and pulls harder. The boat sails dramatically better in light wind and feels better balanced in higher winds.

I don't have one, but it occurs to me that if you might be reefing the main sail while "at sea" a topping lift would be really handy as well.

I've been sailing my boat for about eight years now and I am still making changes in the running rigging as I get better at sailing the boat.

I've found that running them back along the roof top to be best for me.  I set cam cleats at the rear edge of the cabin top so they are easily within reach.  But then they are run between the sliding hatch cover rails and the grab rails which are set closer to the edge of the cabin top. I left enough space f.  This keeps things tidy, out of the way and smooth running.  The order for them, left to right is Peak halyard outboard Port side, main halyard just inside of it.  On the Starboard side The two jib halyards.  Lapper inside, standard jib to the outside.  I left just enough for the cam cleats at the rear edge and just enough space for the fairleads at the front of the rails.  Extra line is coiled and placed in Clothes pin bags hanging on the main bulkhead just beneath the cam cleats.  I run my jib sheets along the side of the deck next to the rail to just a little behind the cabin bulkhead.  Set them with cam cleats and run fairleads a fairlead about half way to the rear chainplates and then set the blocks for the lapper at the rear chainplates.  I run standard jibs sheet forward along the bottom of the clubfoot after it is dropped down to a traveler that is 22 inches wide mounted just forward of the mast on the deck.  I've put a single full swivel block at the pivot of the clubfoot and then take it back outside the bits and on the Port side thru bullseyes mounted to the outside of the deck next to the rail and spaced approx 32 " apart back to the cockpit where it is set with a cam cleat next to the cockpit on the side deck.   I run the furling lines along the outside of the starboard deck back to the same area on the starboard side and can cleat them off while underway.

The addition of the clothespin bags has proven to be an excellent way for us to keep things tidy and shipshape once you learn to coil the extra line correctly so it feeds straight without coiling.  WalMart in colors to compliment the paint jobs or easily made with Sunbrella fabric and draw strings.  See the photo belo wor how they are used on "Fire Escape"  Capt. Jake's former Weekender, Now in our boatshed and Handles incredibly well after 5 years of tinkering with rigging changes and refinements.

For me and a few others I know with similar desires to have cockpit handling of most everything (so it makes single handling a lot easier) within reach in all conditions.  No loose lines or tangles, No worrieis If I have my grand kids with me or others that are not experienced.  I don't need to go forward (if I pay attention to what is happening) until after I dock and most often I can grab a dock cleat while slipping up to the dock with the bow line and then grab a second with a stern line before getting out to secure things.

But then every one has different needs and and desires for a better way for them.  I've tried and discarded lots of things and along the way having been on a number of Weekenders in widely varying locals and conditions I've had the opportunity to see a lot of well thought out and well executed upgrades.  I have also seen changes and a lot more of things that were very difficult to use because they were just not laid out to work with no thought about what went where and how to keep all the lines clear and not tangled.  Also a few that were downright dangerous and could be life threatening.  Bad material choices, used clothes line used for main sheets and 1/4" sisal 3 strand that was being used for halyards thru really bad plywood blocks secured with cotton twine and very heavy duty commercial nylon fishing line for shrouds and forestay.  Way too much line not whipped off ends and single overhand knots to to secure things or non knots that are taped with electrical tape to hold them together.  A couple I refused to go out on because they were close to disasters waiting to happen.  But I explained why and what I would recommend to make them safe and to function.  I was asked why one boats boom hung down into the cockpit and couldn't be sailed after he had recut foot off the sail to get the boom up out of the cockpit.  He couldn't get it to do anything but motor about with the sails down.  With a 25 horse outboard on the back.  Took some major changes before it could sail and he did most of them.     In his defense, he hadn't built the boat, he purchased it.  And I think he has a good time with it now.

My rigging, like most, remains a work in progress. I currently have both my jibsheets (loose footed jib) running back past the outside of the shrouds, through a block and to a cam cleat positioned right at the cabin bulkhead. These are on both port and starboard side. Inside of those cam cleats, I have the peak and throat halyards locking down with cam cleats (throat on the port side and the peak on starboard). While I like the halyards there OK, I will likely move them up to the cabin roof where I have my Jib halyard. The reason that would be an improvement will be when taking down the sails; they'll be more accessible to deal with any twists, etc as the halyards run back out the cam cleats. On the port side of the bulkhead (in the cockpit), I have a nice canvas bag (we call it a spaghetti bag) to dump all the excess line. We love this feature! I have another double bag I will be installing on the bulkhead directly underneath the companionway entry. I also have a downhaul for the jib that just ties off on a port side cleat. When dousing, just pull the halyard out of the bag, pop it out of the cleat and pull the downhaul. For reefing, I have a downhaul on both ends of the main and all reefing can be done from the cockpit. Last week I also got a thing called the "tillerwatch" that will hold my rudder in place as I reef. And, as mentioned above, I also put in a topping lift, something I see in many photos. I'm happy with everything as it sits right now with the exception of the throat and peak halyards which I want to move to the cabin roof, right at the back edge.

A hearty Yes to the above posts! Our boats seldom turn out the same way twice, as our tastes change over time and we learn things from other builders. And sometimes they go backwards as things we try don't work out, but that's all part of the fun of fiddling around with stuff...

Mike

(08-20-2010, 04:26 PM)mikestevenson link Wrote: [ -> ]And sometimes they go backwards as things we try don't work out, but that's all part of the fun of fiddling around with stuff...

And that's why I'll NEVER talk about my fancy system I developed for dousing my jib.

The down-haul I replaced with with works quite nice though.