BYYB Forums

hello folks, just finished hooking up rigging and have a few odds and ends to deal with...............I used cheap lines from Lowes to get dimensions and hardware attachment points and everything seems o k but the 5/16 cheap line seems to kink and the 3/8 is even worse........I was planning on using line from duckworks, has any one used it and is it good enough? also should I go down to 1/4 inch for everything but the main sheet...............I used bullet and big bullet blocks as recommended so that is not an issue.....should I go down to west marine and get new england line..............would rather go with duckworks, everything I have gotten from them so far has been great                  thanks.................bruce

There are a lot of choices in lines, so you'll have to be specific about what you actually purchased.

Lowe's does sell a fairly good double braid polyester. They also sell really cheap single braids and triple twist too. So which did you buy? I'll suspect it's triple twist or single braid.

Who recommended bullet and big bullet blocks? You don't need anything like that with the loads of this rig. Ronstan 20, 30, 40 and 50 series blocks are cheaper and work just as good. Hell, you could make two or three fancy looking blocks for the cost of one bullet block. Even Race Lite blocks are cheaper then bullet blocks. Bullet blocks are for Bermudian rigged racers, that haven't anything better to do then spend big bucks on their plastic boats.

DuckWorks sells a fairly good double braid polyester line, which is what you want. Stay away from nylon and polypropylene. They also sell a good spectra line, but it would be a waste on a gaffer and it costs twice as much as the polyester double braid.

1/4" lines for everything except the sheets is fine, so long as it's good double braid polyester line. If you use the cheap stuff you could break a 1/4" peak halyard trying to remove the last wrinkles in a good blow. I think 3/8" would be the minimum for the sheets, because you have to grab this often and smaller lines hurt.

paul, I got double braid 5/16 polyester and double braid 3/8 nylon(floating} to use for dock lines later. these were just to use for testing the alignment etc.  the lines I've had before on my other boats (came equipped) were far superior, although I have not seen these under load,they might straighten out but I doubt it.I realize this boat will not have the loads on it that say my piver tri had but wanted to make it all run as smooth as possible (ball bearings and comfortable lines) so there wouldn't be any trauma with the little woman and her friends using it.This forum was where I read about harken and ronstan and line sizes.....I looked every where but couldn't find 5/16 and 3/8 blocks from ronstan any cheaper than harkin........my neighbor insisted I would be sorry to use anything but harken,but of course he is a sailboat fanatic.(farreachvoyages.com)..........I just didn't want to order the duckworks lines and find out they were the same as the Lowes ones.....................thanks    bruce

All Ronstan blocks are ball bearing blocks. The regular price 1/4" double braid at DuckWorks is about .37 cents a foot, which is about right, 3/8" is about .50 cents. Ronstan (and all other block makers) use metric sheave sizes.

A series 20 block, means it's got a 20 mm sheave (a fat 3/4") which will take up to 1/4" line. A 20 series Ronstan block with a looped top at West Marine is $10. This is full retail! If you become a full member here, you can get a discount from a few outfits (Jamestown for one) where you can buy these blocks a lot cheaper (I think this is still true). A single block from Race Lite  (DuckWorks) will be about 9 bucks, for 1/4" and a little over 10 bucks for 3/8". Race Lite blocks aren't ball bearing, but they run smooth enough that you wouldn't notice the difference on a gaffer. Nothing against your neighbor, but he's an idiot and people like me have be gouging them for decades for being so gullible. Some people insist they know what they're talking about, but when pressed for the actual figures or facts, can only say things like "I just know" or "trust me". For example the working loads on Race Lite blocks are about twice that of both Harkin and Ronstan. This is because of the solid stainless strap construction method they use, compared to the lighter, high tech plastics used by Harkin and Ronstan. Yes, the Harkin and Ronstan stuff will be lighter and have less friction, but on these boats, the few ounces of weight you'll save and the block "free run out" will never be noticed. This is the difference between knowing what you're talking about and saying you should just "trust me". Lastly, Race Lite is a mom and pop outfit right here in the USA. In fact, their kids are now running the show and making the stuff on the same welding jigs their parents used. When you call them, you are talking to someone who will actually be welding or bending up the stainless for your blocks! Try that with Harkin . . . .

I'm not picking on you Bruce, I just get pissed when "friends" or "neighbors" proclaim about shit they shouldn't. There's nothing worse then a production boat owner's opinion in regard to boat stuff. These people get all their supplies from the local marina store or West Marine, where they get robbed (as they should) by someone who would never buy their own stuff from these places. With the internet being what it is, you can get stuff at half of the price West Marine sells at.

http://www.racelitehardware.com/index.html

Bruce,  I went all Ronstan blocks, I went with the 40 series for everything but the jib, then I used the 30 series.  The only 2 blocks from duckworth that I am using is at the bottom of the mast, it's a Cheek block that mounts to the mast to run the lines back to the cockpit on the roof and a 3/8" line traveller block from racelite since I'm using a tiller.    I bought all colored line from defender, cheapest quality line I could find.    http://www.defender.com/category.jsp?pat...&id=913350 

    The cheapest place online is http://www.defender.com/

Well, I don't usually disagree with Paul's advice, but this time I do: I personally really like Harken's ball-bearing blocks and I just don't like nylon sheaves on stainless axles. I also go with larger diameters of Harken gear for easier running lines when trying to let out in very light conditions. When one considers that these blocks will probably last decades, they don't seem so expensive (we have recycled Harken blocks for thirty-plus years and they're still working ok, but these have been indoors a good part of their lives). Ronstan and Racelite will also last decades, if treated the same way. I also always use line which is much larger than race-weight/load-ratings would indicate as it's much nicer on the hands. Somehow, I can't quite bring myself to imagine that saving a couple pounds on a Weekender will really make-or-break a "race" (and when was the last time I actually sailed against/with another Weekender? Probably 15 years? Hopefully again soon.)

So: I would go with what you like personally (if you can get your hands on a few examples to compare), or start out by buying a couple of smaller test blocks to find out which you like.

Mike

(BTW: our steadfast Harken enthusiasm still remains, despite their having lifted some rig design stuff from us for their boat Procyon...So what—I like their gear.)

thanks guys,I already have harken bullets and big bullets installed with the cheap line,still scratching my head over the cheek block(2) location on the mast.............I'm sure it'll work o k but seems like there should be a better way to get the to halyards back to the cabin top,I also want the jib sheet there and it just doesn't look clean coming off of the shroud base..............I guess I should just hook them up and worry about the salt water in my face instead of these details  thanks to all............where do I send dues  ?........bruce

Consider running your lines from the mast-head down the shrouds.  There's a slight "trick" when doing that in making sure your blocks turn 90 degrees for the last section so that they point the line at the shroud rather than aft.

I attached the blocks for all three halyards plus my jib sheet to my chain plates and then cleated off on the deck aft of the cabin bulkhead.  You might change your mind later, but this way you can rig without making a bunch more mounting points.

Disclaimer - I've only launched once but know of several other builders who rigged successfully this way.

Has anyone had any experience with racelite cam cleats?  The price is right, and if they go, the  replacement cost is cheap.  Obviously the Harken product with two layers of ball bearings are the technologically superior product.

Dave

I am in the process of building 2 single and 2 double blocks.  Thats what is required to rig my Triad.  I bought 4 brass blocks, from Jamestown, but messed up and ordered 3 singles and one double.  They no longer carry the small brass blocks and after pulling on a 1/4' line to raise the sail and control it with the other 1/4" line I decided to oversize them to 7/16" for comfort.  I could have ordered the blocks but the wooden blocks others have built looked salty so I went that way.  I bought the sheaves and brass rod from Duckworks.  I am using some scrap mahogany for the wooden parts.