BYYB Forums

In reading thru the forum I came across The Riccelli modified keel. Is there a plan drawn for this keel somewhere on this site and is this only for the weekender or can this type of keel find a home on the vacationer.

I have it on my Weekender Carlos, I think he has drawings for the Vacationer as well.  Paul will pop in soon to say for sure.
If you look at my blog there is a review and photos (see my sig below)

I somehow have missed this keel drawing and am looking forward to seeing it also. I suspect that it can be scaled to fir the Vactioner, as they're pretty much the same form in different sizes...

Mike

This thread is basically for Mike. It's a good discussion of some of the observations and math that has been preformed on Weekender and Vacationer, though it doesn't directly address the keel.
http://byyb.org/forum/index.php?topic=1612.0
If you perform a search in the "Builders" section with "appendage" or "deadwood" you'll find several interesting previous posts by several members. The hacker crash caused the lose of the discussions on many of the threads that contained the keel modification drawings. I'll look around and see if I can dig them up again.

This is a file I found in the gallery here. It's Craig's SaraLee keel. After he discovered some rot and bashed it up good on some rocks one evening, this keel modification was discussed. He sold the boat and I understand the keel mods went with the sale, though I don't know much else about 'ol SaraLee



You can see the forefoot is well cut back, the appendage centralized and a couple of inches added to her draft, which isn't a big deal in the over all scheme of thing. The keel is attached, rather then built in, just like the "big boys" and the centerline of the boat has a 2x4 keel batten for longitudinal stiffness instead of deadwood.

Next is Ryerson's keel.



The top keel is stock of course, the next has the appendage centralized, but is the same draft. (There are subtle changes between all) The last sketch is the one he did and it increases the draft and reduces the forefoot and after sections of the keel dramatically. The results improve everything, but in modest amounts, which reflects the level of change (modest) to the underwater areas. More radical changes will promote more improvements, of course at a cost.

This is the keel Jim Sander's settled on.



He didn't have a shoal draft requirement, so the 30" keel was adopted. He wanted a traditional, full keel. He had an optional, modern divided appendage keel offered,



which would have improved handling, maneuverability and pointing ability, but he wanted the traditional keel.

I've done a few of these now and several things pop out. The first is the more depth the builder can afford the better the performance gains will be. Next the more you reduce the long keel into a centralized appendage the more responsive the helm will become. Lastly, a new keel profile isn't the end all of modifications, but only a beginning. In fact, it's useless to make this level of change without other changes, like reducing weight aloft, clean, well setting sails with aerodynamically sound attachments and most importantly of all good balance.

Balance seems to be one of the bigger issues I see especially in a Weekender. With a crew of two, one sitting well astern at the wheel, the other has to counter balance by snuggling up against the cabin bulkhead and probably hiking up to keep her on her feet and the transom clear. It's very rare to see a Weekender with a clear transom, which is the trim position she will sail her best. Interestingly enough, if the wheel is tossed in favor of a tiller, it will force the skipper forward, partly addressing the trim issue. Plus, the addition of a hiking stick, the boat can be kept flat and sailing hard.

As always, I ask that anyone interested in discussing modifications to their keel, contact me privately through email. Naturally, performing changes are best done during the build, but they can be done as a retro fit. All but one have been preformed as a retro fit to their boat so far.

There was a thread several years ago (maybe lost to the hackers) that discussed the evolution of the gaff rig had not the Bermudian took over. In this thread I detailed all the potential changes and what they'd be worth in terms of speed, maneuverability, etc. on a hypothetical Weekender that was being optimized for racing. I remember her bare hull weight was about 300 pounds and she had internal halyards and lifts, plus a host of other stuff, that some may find interesting. Flipping through some of these old threads is entertaining.

Yes but we never knew how Jim keel worked. The rumor I heard went something like this, on Jim's first lanch the boat promptly sank from to much weight. The boat was recovered but Jim lost radar sonar and 350 lbs of radio equip a full size pool table and a baby grand piano. Upon recovery the way I heard it Jim built a cradle for his boat and mover it to the desery at an old drive in movie location, had some sails made of nylon netting and bought some movies of the sea. He has reported no problems in the last couple of years. Now I don't know if all this is true but thats how I heard it. Bud

No, no, no . . . the crap about the pool table is an out and out lie, plus everyone knows darn well you can't fit a grand piano on Jim's over size Vacationer. I'm pretty sure it was a spinet (upright) and considering his playing abilities, a blessing actually..

Thanks Paul. I saw the beginning of this thread, but for some reason had never seen the later posts.

Mike