BYYB Forums

Oh wow... I turtled my weekender this Saturday.

  I sailed it down to Daytona from Ormond Beach to see some bike week stuff. Did that, had a good time, was heading back against pretty heavy winds and high waves (high for the river). The wind was blowing against the current and the waves were pretty rough. For 6 miles the boat barreled through the high waves without any complaints. I was making the last turn towards the boat ramp and three things happened, the mainsheet got wrapped up in itself, A nasty blast of wind hit us, and a wave helped it over onto it's side. I fell into the sail. It didnt' take long for the cabin to fill with water and then it went over completely. All this happened in about 20 seconds, tops.

  So here is what I learned from the experience.

•   When you tell your passenger to GET OUT OF THE CABIN. You need to specify, leave your purse there. The boat was upside down before she finally swam out, purse in hand.
  
   
• A 220lb man can right a turtled wekender in 18+ft of rough water with the sails still up. Turn the bow into the wind and stand on the keel, grab the gunwall, lean back and eventually it will come up.
  
   
• Once righted, the weight of two batteries and a 20lb mushroom anchor in the forepeak will keep the bow below water and there is no way you're going to bail the boat out until you get it to shallow water. (no, three seat cushions aren't enough to offset them)
  
   
• Putting a life vest on the end of the mast will make it lay on it's side instead of going turtle again but you're not goign to keep it upright in high surf/winds when it's full of water.
  
   
• It is very hard to pull the sails down (up) on a turtled weekender.
  
   
• Nice people still exist who will tow your boat to shallow water.
  
   
• The Attwood waterproof cell phone bag is a really really great product.
  
   
• The minnkota 40lb thrust SALTWATER electric motor... not so great.
  
   
• Everything gets sucked out of the boat when it rolls over two times.
  
   
• I need to add some flotation to the boat.
  
  

  So there are two problems I see with the weekender. It doesn't float well  enough to bail out when it's full of water.. There is not enough weight in an empty boat to be out in conditions I was out in.

  There was one dude here who bolted steel plates to his keel to help prevent this type of thing. Anyone know how he made out with that? I think there was some other dude who put lead discs into his keel.

  But then... with all that weight on the keel if it did go over, it would just float lower in the water, perhaps just sink outright.

What types of flotation have people added to their boats to make a roll over a recoverable event?

  I had good luck with the air behind the seats in the cockpit. they eventually filled up with water too but not for 20 minutes. Obviously I could put soda bottles or something in there. At least I won't have to look at them like I would have to look at whatever I would have to put in the cockpit.

  Man I wish I had pictures of this.

Glad everyone is safe.

Was the companionway hatch open?  I presume yes since you mention you had a passenger in the cabin.  Do you think if those hatches were closed that the cabin wouldn't have filled initially?

FYI - I filled the unusable "nose" end of the forepeak in my Weekender with foam board.  It took almost an entire 2' X 8' X 2" board to do it.

Wow that must have been some ride. I put pool noodles, in behind seats, and in other areas of empty space on my Vacationer. I installed reefing points at 3 ft from the sail's foot, really helps in strong winds. I'm making new sails this winter, and plan to install reef points at 3ft and 4.5 ft on the sails. Should help if I encounter any nasty weather, our lake is big and COLD. Lastly I know gas powered motors are noisy and smell, however they'll more likely get you home than an electric will.

Greg

Dang! As Andrew noted above: I'm glad glad you and your passenger are OK. The addition of flotation up under the deck is a REALLY GOOD IDEA. While no one sets out to have an accidental capsize, they certainly can happen. And, obviously, they don't happen when we would like them to. (Intentional capsizes are a different story, but then one would be moderately prepared.)

While a short companionway hatch would probably help limit water in the cabin, or slow it down a bit, I have to imagine that the hatch piece probably isn't going to be in place when one needs it. Maybe so, in that prudent sailing would imply one would put in in place when things get rough and tumble, but then I know I probably would neglect it as I like to sit on the hatch seat and people I've sailed with seem to also. (maybe not, as if the wind's up that much we'd probably all be out to windward.) I'm not sure.

All I know is I'm sorry you and your crew and gear got wet and I'm glad you got back alright. What happened with the Minn-Kota? I assume it gave up after being dunked?

Mike

(10-19-2009, 08:13 AM)mikestevenson link Wrote: [ -> ]While a short companionway hatch would probably help limit water in the cabin, or slow it down a bit, I have to imagine that the hatch piece probably isn't going to be in place when one needs it.

Hatch was wide open. top and front. That is how we sail it all the time, she gets down in the cabin when it's windy or rough.

It's not cold here yet, well today it's kind of chilly. but the river is still 85F

I've had it lean over pretty far in the past. To the point where I've filled the cockpit well over half way or more full of river water, but I've always been able to let go of the mainsheet and have it come back upright, Not this time. There is a knot in the end of the rope for the block on transom. I'm using the small harken blocks and sometimes the mainsheet will loop around the other side of that knot. When it does it, it LOCKS the rope in place. I'm usually looking out for it but it all happened so quick.

No reef points, my next set of sails will have the ability to be reefed. Someone gave me a sail which I'm going to cut up to make new sails with at some point in the near future.

Gas motor would have been a mess - I needed the motor after we got the boat bailed, Couldn't re-deploy the main sail withouth lowering the mast because the peak halyard had wrapped around the top of it and jammed the gaff at an odd angle.  - The minnkota worked for a short time after we got the boat bailed out but then it quit after about 10 minutes. I have not taken it apart yet, i'm hoping I can fix it.

Maybe I can rig some kind of water ballast system with PVC sewer pipes. At least water won't make it sink MORE like lead or steel plates.

Also another great product... 1997 Nissan Pathfinder keyless entry keyfob. Once it dried out, click click click, I love my keyless entry.

After making some changes to my boat.. I would like to try this again, on purpose. but.... I'm not even sure how I managed to find 18 feet of water in the first place, most of the river is 5ft deep and the channel is mostly 12 feet deep. I need to find 20 feet deep water close to shore if I were to try this again on purpose. I suppose I could just fill the boat with water close to shore and see how far it sinks when sitting full.

One of the common themes with capsize stories seems to be the cabin filling with water.  I know that previous posters have suggested going into the cabin and bailing but I can't see that being safe or effective considering the small amount of space there is in the companionway.

Mike - What are your thoughts on putting hatches in the cockpit that lead to the cabin to allow for bailing from there?

I would stay away from any ballast system, you and the crew should be that. Baton down the hatches, that's just not a saying   Get reef points and use them early.  This boat in almost any condition should not capsize if these rules are followed, and if it does, you have a better chance getting righted and bailed if you keep the cabin water free.  I do this by sealing the fore hatch from the cabin as well as the aft areas.  My bridge deck is above the height of the cockpit.  It might have been best to not turn to your launch area in these big wave conditions, but go on to a sheltered area and wait it out.  Glad you are all safe

Any ballast on this boat will just further limit her carrying capacity, which unfortunately includes the capacity while on her side or upside down as well.

This is a classic indication why she's a "protected waters" boat. In this case it seems conditions, wind and mishap all conspired against the skipper. Tip for the future, this is what always happens, a rapidly descending spiral, of which there is progressively less possibility of escape.

NTSB and other investigative outfits have found this to be the case over and over. The cure, know your limitations, personally as well as the vessel.

I wouldn't venture into deep water without a bridge deck. Weekender as designed doesn't have one, though it's an easy addition.

Seamanship is a difficult subject, as most think they are able seamen, but usually are woefully under skilled. These skills comes as you build experience, but if the bulk of your experiences are in mild conditions on protected waters, you'll be a fine moderate weather lake sailor and little else. Very few practice MOB drills, hoving off, scratching off lee shores, running before warps or other reasonable tactics, preferring to have a nice easy ride with the radio playing a favorite song, with Fidel the wonder dog licking your sore foot.

I'm glad all worked out well and no one was hurt, but the Halifax (semi protected to near shore conditions, most of the time between Ormond and Daytona beaches) can easily produce conditions well beyond the abilities of a Weekender, floatation or not. And as you well know the conditions can change rapidly, so when this happens, good seamanship dictates all hatches get closed, lines made neat and a good look out preserved. You'll still get caught (mother nature has a weird sense of humor), but it doesn't have to be with your paints down.

OK...I'm a kayaker/kayak builder, now fledgling sailboat builder soon to be sailor, I hope.

Would someone be so kind at to explain what a bridge deck is and why it would be helpful on a weekender.

Thanks,

Ken

I'll second that .... ???