BYYB Forums

Hi guys,

Looking over the vacationer plans and was wondering if anyone has ever  extended the height of the sides of the hull to create a taller bulwark and then cut scupper into it.

It seems to me if I had to go up forward, I would like a little more for my toes to grab onto.  I was thinking around 6 to 8 inches or so, and then add some sort of bracket/stanchion every so often to reinforce it.

Any thoughts?

David George

I kind of like the idea of rounding the deck/hull side over and adding a separate toe rail. Then there's nowhere for water to collect  and you automatically have "scuppers". Like on Andrew's boat.

Keith:  I second your motion for a toe rail.  Andrew's looks great and is very functional.  I plan to round the deck side joint on my Weekender and install toe rails.  David: check the recent thread Andrew started on this board.  He's got photos there.

Dave

The toe rails also are a handy thing to tie things to.  I'm setting up my sails and just tie the halyards off to the toe rail until I can figure out where I'm going to put the cleats.  When I (finally) launch I expect them to be handy for fenders as well as a place to grab hold of the boat.

Andrew:  When I inquired about how you attached your toe rails you suggested screws were a bad idea.  Why not screws into the supports for the rail up from the bottom of the deck?

There's two reasons.  The most important one is that you can't get under the deck to drive screws up for most of the rail area.  This presumes that you would install the toe rail as I did - after fiberglassing the deck and having the sides on.

The second reason - since you'd say OK - I'll screw from top down - is that I was concerned with splitting the small blocks or the rail.

So instead, I used finishing nails and angled them in different directions so that they would hold better.

BTW - after putting the rail on top of the blocks I noticed my usual less than perfect carpentry left some blocks sticking partially out from the rail.  I just used my wood rasp to clean that up.

I hadn't thought about the clearances required to access the bottom side of the deck, especially at the bow.  Nails it is.  With epoxy this should be strong enough.

Dave

The easy way to make bulwarks and rails on boats this size, is to laminate them in place. Take a 2x4 and rip it into 1/2 to 3/4" by 1.5" strips, then stack them up on the edge of the deck, They'll bend well and you can easily glue down blocks or better yet just tape off the areas you want glue and cut out the areas for scupper later.

Screwing down into the deck is problematic as the big piece (the bulwark or rail) is being held by just the thickness of the plywood (not good, strength wise). Screwing up from inside isn't practical because of the angle of the sides.

ERm, I'm no expert, but that toe rail will be positioned exactly over the stringer at the deck/hull joint for its entire length; plenty of "meat" to put a screw into. If you want it to be nice and rot proof, I'd temporarily position the toe rail support blocks, drill a hole through the support and deck into the stringer, remove the supports and fill each resulting hole in the deck with thickened epoxy. Then I would drill small pilot holes into the epoxy "plug", reposition the blocks, and drive a screw into the epoxy. This way, you've got a screw bedded in epoxy and not through the fibreglass on your deck and into the stringer. If you plan ahead you can match pilot holes in the toerail so the same screw goes through the toerail, through the block, and into its epoxy bed. This will preserve the waterproof integrity of your deck and forestall rot. I don't like nails personally. If you do that you'll be punching holes through your deck fibreglass.

Nails might be OK if you put lots of epoxy or bedding compound on the blocks before nailing 'em down...

P.S., Paul just posted his reply a second before I did. I didn't have a chance to read it. Go with what he says.

For mine I ripped down some fir to 3/4" x 3/4" and cut them into 3" lengths.  I made about 50 not knowing how many I would use.  I spaced them out about every 6" on centre around the bow and 1/2 that around the cockpit.  At the bow I angled them to meet up with the bowsprit leaving just a hair on each side and I rounded the ends over so that they wouldn't catch anything - my stationary sander was my friend that day.

I put a nail into each of them prior to glueing (they're slippery after the glue is on) and then with my son leading spreading PL-Premium, I followed along nailing them into place trying to follow the curve of the deck.  I purposely did NOT put these blocks at the chain-plates though - there I made specially angled, larger blocks that went out and supported the chain-plates.  Since PL expands as it dries (causing the need to to clean-up after the glue dries - which I did before the rails) I figured that would work as bedding compound.

For the rails themselves, I was lucky enough to have some clear-dry cedar 2X2s (used to hold up the false ceiling in the dining room) that I ripped down to 3/4" x 3/4".  Since they weren't long enough to go the whole distance, I planned the joint to end in the middle of a block.  After the glue dried I rounded them over with my router.  The cedar bent as nice as you could ask.

Since my deck wasn't perfect and my alignment of the blocks was even less so - where any of the blocks stood out, I just ground them flush with my wood rasp.

Personally, I think the nails are holding fine and that screws would add extra effort in prep and finishing - but that's just me.