BYYB Forums

Ok,
This is probably gonna through people for a loop… throughout the years people have made mods on the Weekender to suit their needs/tastes. Some have been minor, some not. Having built one Weekender and a couple other boats and owned too many I have yet to find my “Prefect” boat. Very close to perfect is the Montgomery 15/17. But I’m just not as thrilled with fantastic plastic.
So, I’ve decided to build another Weekender… but not really. I LOVE the looks and lines of the Weekender, the clipper bow, the gaff rig, the round cabin front, the sheer. But after building/sailing one, all my needs and desires were not met. Don’t get me wrong, these are GREAT little boats!!!! There are just some things I would do different on the next one.
1: First, many have discussed a retractable keel or centerboard. I agree. After sailing many boats with them I can definitely see the benefits they give…on that note, I prefer a retractable keel. If you were to strike a submerged object (I did in my Cal-21 in the Gulf of Mexico) and you have a centerboard, either the centerboard will break or the centerboard trunk will break. Either is not good though I prefer the former to the latter. Now on a retractable keel, if you strike an object, the keel just makes a BIG clunk and raises up and slams back down (as did mine). Though it will make you want to pee your pants, it probably won’t sink you. So a retractable keel it is!
Now, I don’t want the keel housing to protrude into the cabin, its too cozy for that in there. So, the bottom of the boat needs to have a shallow “V”, like on the “Nancy’s China”. But the cabin sole will still be flat as on the Weekender. Now it will require ribs. I’m ok with that. I can use the space below the cabin sole for flotation and ballast (and maybe some storage). The shallow “V” does not quite give me enough room for the keel I need, so it will get a combination keel/centerboard like on the Meadowbird. The pivot point will be below the waterline so I do not have to worry about any leaks.
2: The hull will need to be multi-chine like the “Nancy’s China to accommodate the new bottom.
3: The rig is modest, with the added weight of the keel, etc… she can use a bit more sail. I added a Cutter rig on Elusive II, I’ll probable do that again. I also added height & length and she sailed just fine, so that will most likely happen also (keeping in mind the CE etc…).
4: I have to have a tiller. I can sail with my eyes closed if I can “feel” the boat through the tiller. My Morgan Outisland 30 had wheel steering, though she had a full keel and you only needed to make corrections every few miles, I was forever straining my neck looking up at the 40’ mast and tell tails on the sails. So a tiller it is. But, what do I need the lazerette for if I’m not housing steering gear!!! So away with that & I gain about a foot of room!!! Ok, the cockpit is plenty big… so I’ll add the foot of room to the cabin. One could always use a bit more room in the cabin. (yep… I won’t be able to use the plans for much at this point)
5: I wouldn’t mind having the hull sides a bit taller, not much, maybe 4”-6”. If I do that… then I should be able to have a self bailing cockpit. Now that would be nice.
6: I should like to have her unsinkable (sort of) so my wife doesn’t get to collect on my insurance policy any time soon! Along that line of though… the front bulkhead will be solid, no access from the cabin, and I’ll make a fairly watertight hatch for that. The area behind the seatbacks will be watertight compartments also… now that makes three. With some flotation under parts of the cabin sole and under the cockpit floor, I think she might float if holed.
Well, that’s all the ideas I’ve come up with so far. I know, it is not really a Weekender any longer, but it will retain the “looks” of one. Really it is sort of like designing a new boat.
Ok, have at the ideas!!!!! I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts on them.
Thanks for indulging me,
Larry C

The Elusive II was a fine lookin boat! I admire your ideas. You have the dream of sailing the perfect boat and are thinking of ways to get there. I wish I knew more about boats and sailing so I could offer something but at my level for either U'd best keep mum. I will say "Go fot it!".

I am in the middle of building a Weekender, but I agree with all of your modifications, especially elimiating the lazerrete for extra tiller and cockpit space. I hope you have good luck with it. I don't see any drawbacks except the increased time and work involved in installing ribs.

One more desireable modification...but WAY too much work and upkeep.... a lapstrake design..now that would be classy!

Sounds to me like you are designing a modified Vac. The slight V bottom would really help and while you are changing the cockpit configuration you might also widen the beam at the transom and get some extra boyancy back there so she doesn't squat so bad. 8) 8)

Without going into a bunch of technical details, you can put a V bottom on a Weekender, but you have to be quite careful where you place the additional hull volume.

You can make a V bottom easily two different ways, neither require ribs. One way would be to attach athwartship station molds (bulkheads) on the bottom (say 4 or 5 along it's length) and bend over the plywood using taped seams. The other and easier way would be to use closed cell foam blocks (you can get it very thick and in 4'x8' sheets). You'd epoxy the foam in place on the bottom and 'glass over it.

The questions are, where to place this additional displacement. Would you want to address some of the design short comings with it, or just uniformly across the bottom. If it's a uniform amount, then the wider stern would require considerable less volume then the much narrower stem, so she'd float close to where she likes too. In other words if a 3" layer of extra hull depth was added to the bottom of a Weekender, she'd float bow down, because she rotate around her CB with the additional volume aft pushing it up. To compensate for this, you could decrease the amount of volume there, so she "settles" evenly around her CB. Okay, how much less in the stern quarters and where to start the decrease, etc. It can easily get to be a dog chasing it's tail thing. I've move enough displacement around (to address issues) on designs to tell you it can be a painful task.

Your other ideas all sound very doable, with most having been done at some point or another. Four inches of additional freeboard is a lot and will affect the way the boat looks pretty dramatically. I'd suggest you sketch out some scale profiles and re-work the sheer, deck and cabin heights, because they'll need to change to keep her looking like she does. The freeboard can be "softened" a bit (not as much sweep or belly) which will provide additional height amidship, where it's most useful, without resorting to redrawing the whole profile of the boat. You'd still have to redraw the sheer, but that's not as bad.

Tillers are the only way to go on small craft. I have a 48' ketch with a tiller! The tactile response from a tiller is unmatched.

You'll have a fun time trying to draw the cockpit sole high enough to permit self draining. You'll need at least 6" (over the LWL) or it'll back flood easily.

Making her "unsinkable" will chew up a lot of interior volume with floatation or buoyancy chambers. Foam behind the seats and under the side decks are the best locations, both from a practical and a swamped boat stand point. Pool noodles have been a popular, low cost choice has have milk jugs.

The original Weekender design had a centerboard. She'd do well with one installed. It could live in the center section of the deadwood assembly easily. This is a "slice of pie" type of board and fine for this type of design. You only need two positions, all the way deployed and fully retracted, which makes things simple.

Without considerable additional design alterations, she can't be made uncapsizable or self righting.

I say go for it. You already know how to do it and probably have plenty of ideas how to make things easier and better then the first time around (sort of like marriage), so lets get to it man . . .

I like the idea of bumping back the cockpit space. I agree that the beam would need to be widened at the stern. I think if stern taper is left stock the extra seating would be very naroow and the foot well would be very small.
Regarding the height of the side. I'm sure this size was arrived at becuase it is half of a sheet of plywood. Raising the side walls and as Paul suggests making the deck wider would give you a shot at making the cockpit wider and the cabin roomier. She might be a bit more tender as a result but I doubt to the point it would cause any issue.

The aft portion of the Weekender cockpit is a bit cramped for feet. If taped seam methods were employed during it's construction you could change the space available for feet here, by angling the seat box riser in at the bottom. This would give you more room and leave the seat width the same. The box could also be made open, but there is a lose of strength if this is done, if not well thought out.

If you widen the stern as many have suggested, it raises a bunch of issues during construction, the first is none of the panels will fit as the plans call for them. The decks, bottom, transom and side panels will all have to be done "on the fly" to the new shape.

Two additional inches at the lower corner of the transom (4" total) would provide a fair amount of extra hull volume. If large crews (or well fed skippers) are expected, then maybe 3" (6" total). The bottom panel would need it's curves refaired from about midship aft as would the topsides and deck. It might be best to eyeball this on the bottom planks with a batten, then cut the topside planks over size and trim to fit when you attempt to bend them on, ditto for the decks and transom. This is easy with taped seam construction, not so much with the stock plans "glue and screw" method.

Personally, I dislike cockpit boxes. They trap moisture and limit foot space in small craft. They do provide storage space and usually more importantly, enclosed air chambers to serve as floatation in a capsize or swamped condition. I like "stick built" cockpits. These are basically cockpit seat tops from dimensional stock with slats or plywood. These let air circulate around everything which goes a long way to keeping the wood healthy. You can use bins to store things and if they are clear or a basket style, then you can instantly see what's inside them.

I also dislike aft decks on small boats. You need to get at the transom often in a small boat. To play with a fickle motor, ship a rudder, unfoul a line, etc., climbing over an aft deck makes this more trouble then the extra storage space make valuable. I just removed an aft deck from a design and installed a removable seat top in it's place, for this very reason. A fuel tank will live under this seat top, but access is easy and you can get to the transom without gymnastics.

Paul, what would happen if he built the hull as designed, but then put a "v" bottom on it by installing small ribs that connected the chine to the bottom of the existing keel? I am having trouble thinking of a way to explain what I mean, but I am trying to think of what the boat would look like basically if you had a skin from chine to chine over the bottom of the keel. This would make a bilge under the cabin sole, and would have lower volume under the cockpit and more volume under the mast, like you were explaining. The boat would have the same profile viewed from the side, but would have a "v" shape viewed from ahead. Maybe a weighted centreboard housed in the remnants of the old keel? Or would that result in a very funny-shaped boat? You could always make the keel a different shape to begin with to change the volume distribution I suppose. I there some merit to a flat bottom that would be compromised by skinning over that area? Maybe the ribs could be more of a trapezoid shape, and another chine could be framed in and then the new skin segments could be more like strips, and you would still have a flattish bottom, but narrower than the original. I guess a centreboard would be mandatory because there would no longer be a protruding full-length keel.

The under-seat storage has always been a great place on my boat to store rainwater. I eventually glued the access doors shut to keep water out of there, and put those round deck plates there instead. It would be better to just have open benches, like Paul said. I picture a frame with woven seat tops, like a canoe seat. This would be light and comfortable.

My wonder has always been the keel shape, it seems "wrong" in many ways, but does work. So I wonder has anyone changed this by cutting some out of the forefoot and adding some in the right place (COE) to get rid of some of the weather helm. For me this would be an easy thing to do before spring launch if I knew what I was doing more. I could "guess" what needs to take place and be pretty close but if someone has already done the experimenting part, that would help. I could give a little on the draft, it's about a foot now but a few more inches towards the center wouldn't be a bother to me. Any suggestions?

Keith, the resulting hull shape described as you suggested would place a fair amount more rocker in the bottom, remove the scant, little lateral plane that exists (though a board would help) and make the forefoot area more buoyant then necessary.

A V bottom could be done, but it would require some calculations. Ribs wouldn't be my method. I'd use station molds (partial bulkheads) to form the space, then tape the new bottom planks to this, well tabbed into the topside planking. The old, flat bottom could be "opened" up to reveal the new bilge, but again, where to draw the line for the new rabbit (where the new planks hit the keel). Four or five plywood bulkheads would be much easier to make and position then ribs. Taped seam construction would be stronger and lighter too.

Just from memory, I'd have the deepest portion of the new bottom around the forward part of the cabin, maybe a few feet aft of the forward bulkhead. This is my "eyeball" guess as to about where it would live best, without resorting to pulling out a calculator.

Ryerson, yes, the forefoot has been cut away by a few different builders. One removed all but a couple of inches, uniformly along it's full length and added a daggerboard, which has dramidicly improved preformance. This is the approach I'd use as deadwood isn't necessary for the strength of the boat and provides ineffective lateral plane. There are a few sketches I've posted over the years offering up possibilities for a more centralized appendage. If you send me an email, I shoot you off a copy. A little more draft (2 - 3") would help a bunch to staving off the gross leeward skid these boats experience. A better appendage profile, possibly with some rounding or better yet foil sections, would help windward ability too. In light air on a reach, these boats can keep up with fat bellied modern cruisers, but once the boat is well up into the wind, they get their transoms handed to them. This gets progressively worse as the wind strength increases.

Keith, on a boat I remodeled a few years ago, which was a Catalina 22 look a like, the whole of the deck and interior was removed and replaced with an open boat layout. Just a foredeck from the mast forward and a big cockpit with seats down each side. The seats were just as you described, simple stick built (1x2's) tabbed into the hull shell and they were laced with nylon webbing, much like a lawn chair would be. They were very comfortable, enough so that cushions weren't really necessary and extremely light weight. The resulting changes took a 2,300 pound boat down to around 1,700 and the additional ballast afforded by the 600 pounds of lead pigs arranged along the centerboard case, kept her more upright under way and more comfortable in a rough slosh.

This boat just arrived back for some varnish touch ups and equipment upgrades. It's nice to see the old girl, pretty much just as she was when she left here a few years back, though her varnish is showing some wear and age. One of the benefits of the nylon webbing seat tops is when he did use cushions (which he now has), the webs provided ventilation so they didn't mildew like a cushion that sits on a flat seat top does. The webs let the cushion conform to your butt, which is an invaluable contrivance if you have a butt shaped like mine. You also don't have to sit in a pool of boarding water, like a solid top seat forces you to do.