BYYB Forums

I'm pretty sure this has been addressed, but I can't seem to filter the search well enough to find the topic.

When making the keel, has anyone tried using standard Lowes\Home Depot pressure treated lumber? It seems to me this would help prevent some potential rot issues and add a bit of weight to the keel. I don't know that the weight is needed, but I'd hate to see my boat only float upside-down.

When reading this forum, I see a lot of people using what I consider to be exotic woods - mahogany trim, maple rudders, old growth walnut. What's a poor man to do? I understand that the boat was designed in part with cost in mind and until I have a chance to really go over the plans I don't know if builders here are enhancing thier own version of the boat or if these are genuine improvements over the original material specs.

Mr. Peterson has kindly consented to provide his unused Weekender plans so I hope to start the little things later this year while the main structure will wait until spring. In the meantime I need to plan for materials.

I suggest looking for reclaimed lumber. Find a remodel project in your area and go see if the builder will let you have some longer lengths of torn out base boards or check craigslist. people sometimes have a small barn they want removed. (problem with this is usually having to take everything hock:
I am using old baseboard from a remodel. rough dimensions 3/4" x 8" x 10-13 feet. This will be alot more work than just buying the stock but the glue up and lamination to get the cleaned up lumber back to 3/4" x 12" x14 ft will add some epoxy weight and lots of strength. Also this should cancel out any chances of your keel cupping or crowning. Plus the way I see it. This also allows for better shaping to the cutting edge of the keel since the lamination should be close to doubling the strenght of the edge if not more and also adding some weight that can now be shedded a little with shaping. Best of luck.

These boats can be built with any wood that's readily available to you. for instance I used some hardwood, cherry, maple, ash that I bought at a small lumber mill in Nova Scotia, about 10 years ago. I'd been saving it for some furniture projects. I figured this was a good use for it as any. At the time it cost 2.00-5.00 a Brd foot.

I picked through a stack of 2x6 spruce to find the wood for my mast, gaff, and boom, I made sure to restack the pile so the lumberyard wouldn't get upset with me. I milled it with my table saw, and planner to get some good sticks, with relatively few knots.

This comment may arouse some discussion, I used outdoor grade G1S fir, and spruce plywood, cost less than half price of marine plywood, works fine for these little craft.

Bottom line is use wood that's locally available to you, and this will usually keep the project within a reasonable budget.

Greg

Beacause the pressure treatment it wears off with time, might that not be a concern in terms of poor adhesion of epoxy or paint?

How about polymerisation? Might the pressure treatment prevent epoxy from hardening properly?

Personally I would not use pressure treated lumber I have no facts or prefrences to offer it just does not seem like it would be good. Just a gut feeling and just my two cents.
But, it is your boat and will be built however you want it to (thats the beauty of these boats) and out of whatever materials you want.
good luck with whatever you choose.

Brian.

ok. here is the facts as they are viewed form utah.

there are original wood wagon wheels still in existence today that are left over from when the pioneers settled utah. how in the heck, you ask? well, they soaked the hubs in salt water (we have plenty of that in salt lake too). after the wood was properly cured, they assembled them and sent them across the country to be beaton apon by the wether and the elements. over 100 years later they still can be found.

an old train track was recently demolished that spanned the great salt lake. it was one of the first tracks to be laid our here in the west. the timbers were in perfect shape. they figure the years from soaking in the lake cured them as good as you would ever see.

final comment. i would not bother. for the time it takes to cure lumber and the time it takes to just simply maintain the boat, i choose the regular annual maintanence. i completed the daydream in the spring of 2006 and i have not had any major problems. when i notice cracks, i roll the boat over and fill with epoxy (during the cold season when the water is too hard to play in, of course)

Uh oh. I guess I will be in trouble then, the water never gets hard here so I will be in the water playing
No kidding huh, thats a good bit of nostalga Aaron, lumber soaked and cured in salt water thats cool.

allways rubbin it in about them warm winters! :mrgreen:

so bryan, does this mean that we need to plan a january messabout in your hood this winter?

i hear that antifreeze is good for treating wood too. i don't have any stories to support that on though.

I don't think paint sticks to pressure treated wood all that well. I think you're supposed to use fir for the keel. I mean, you could use anything I suppose. I hear lots of people use pine. That's pretty cheap, isn't it? I think the main thing is to build it well, clamp it good, use epoxy, don't let air pockets get trapped between the laminations, Aaron is right. There's lots of stuff around that's made of wood and is hundreds of years old. I think the guys using all those strange woods are doing so either because it is readily available to them locally, or they have some lying around anyway, or maybe they are interested in that sort of thing. I don't think they are doing it because they have to.

There have been many discussion on what woods are suitable for building these boats. Many of the results end up being regional in nature by the very fact that it is hard to find some suitable woods in some parts of the country or world based upon local availability.
To directly answer your question regarding using pressure treated wood for building a PC, Weekender or Vacationer, I would say this. Pressure treated wood has holes in it to inject the chemicals that are used to protect it. Those holes present all kinds of opportunity for moisture to find its way into a structure that you are trying to keep moisture from getting into. Not so with standard lumber. Strength wise there is no advantage. Weight wise, there are better alternatives.
I would recommend that you go to www.glenl.com and read up on those woods recommeded as suitable for building wooden boats. It is well founded data that is all relavant.
Selection of a suitable piece of lumber isn't all that difficult if you are aware that good lumber with suitable grain and grain orientation are going to be more expensive than builders grade construction lumber. It is well worth understanding the differences before you get frustrated going thru the lumber piles at the big box stores.
Understand how the lumber is cut from the log, why it is cut that way and what its characteristics will be when it begins to dry out. Warp, twist, cup and curl are all going to be important selection factors in wider stock.
You will hear the terms "quarter sawn, vertical grain, plain sawn, riff sawn" and you will much better informed and able to find suitable pieces of lumber if you understand the differences and can identify them quickly.
There are suitable pieces of some spieces of pine. But most are not acceptable. Some suitable Doug Fir but most are not acceptable. White Oak makes good keel stock if quarter sawn. Red oak doesn't have a place in boat building but is excellent in furniture construction. Mahogany will work well but is hard to work with in some situations. It is brittle and can crack. Western Red Cedar is fine for some things but not others. Common yellow cedar can be ok, but most boards are not. White pine is a waste of money if you expect your boat to last. Same with poplar. Except for Tulip Poplar, which is fine to use.
Find a wood recycler, you can save a lot of money on good stock provided you know what you are looking for and are prepared to clean up a lot of used lumber. This is one place that you can find good tight grain, old growth Doug Fir if you are patient and know what to look for.
When the Stevensons developed these plans good wood and good marine plywood were a lot less expensive and very plentiful. Now you have a hard time finding good stock and good plywood without paying a lot more.

You can go back and read many of the discussions and see what is generally available in your area. Then find a good local lumber yard and go ask questions, tell them what you are doing, what you are looking for and you may well be surprised what they will do to help you. The vast majority of those that I've delt with get interested and will help you in many ways to find suitable stock. But you have to ask good questions and be patient, their main business is builders and that is where they make their money. The things you are looking for are available to them, but may not be obvious in walking around.

If you ask for 1X12 X16 quarter sawn white oak, Doug fir or Southern Yellow Pine. They can get it for you, but you may have to pay a bit to get it. Is it worth it? In my mind yes, in yours, highly subjective. Recycled lumber will be a lot less expensive and with some effort you will probably find exactly what you want. If it turns out to be 2X12X 16' ask if they cdan plane it down to 1X12 for you. Most can for a nominal fee. You will get good lumber, most likely better than you can purchase new.

Back to pressure treated for a moment, it is used in commercial boat building for many uses, but it is almost always encapsulted with glass and epoxy to make it work out for its intended use. Almost never by a boat builder for general consumer use. The saw dust is toxic if inhaled as is sanding dust. And don't ever burn the scraps. The smoke is highly toxic.

So some research, read up a lot more on what is suitable and why, then ask a lot of questions before purchasing. You will be amased at what you may find out you can get if you are willing to spend some time and effort in seeking out good material for your use.