Hello all, I'm another new member here, and in that wonderful stage where I get full credit from friends and family for building a boat, without yet
having bought a single nail! But I'm anxious to move on, and having visited all the big-box stores, local lumber yards and sawmills - in my neck of rural western Massachusetts visiting all of them really isn't that much work - it seems as though I'm faced with the choice of spending $500 on the keel wood or buying wood that folk on these boards advise against. There's lots of discussion on this site about the trade-off between the price, the type of wood, and the cut, but I have no clue how to prioritize between them: Is it better to get quarter-sawn SYP, or straight-cut mahogany, or glue up narrower-width white oak, for example - or do I have to bite the bullet, buy the 12" quarter-sawn white oak, and risk sleeping in the garage until I finish the boat and can prove to my wife that it was worth it? Maybe $500 is reasonable, but at first glance spending 10% of the boat price on day one seems like it might not be good for budgeting.
In this area, there's some beautiful quarter-sawn 1X12 white oak, but I'd have to trade my first-born for it. There's SYP 5/4 stair treads which I can buy and still eat, but it's not quarter-sawn and I'd have to find some way of planing it down to 4/4 (or is 5/4 OK?). There's some gorgeous mahogany 5/4 stair treads priced somewhere between the other two, but also not quarter-sawn and also in need of planing. Home Depot has affordable "premium pine" and poplar, but in 12 foot lengths. And the Internet has unlimited options, but I have no idea how to prioritize the different characteristics to get the best wood for the dollar. Help!
Oh - I'm planning on building the Weekender, and it will almost certainly be exactly that: wet weekends, and parked in the driveway otherwise.
Welcome Jonathan,
The Weekender is a great boat I have seen only one but a very pretty boat.
There are folks here who used smaller width boards and glued them up so I don't think that is a problem, I used Southern yellow pine for my keel layup and some folks seem to think that is not a good wood to use, so I may be in for trouble in the near future, As my boat is still just short of the water.
I think smaller dimensional white oak, or fir would be good (Just my two cents) there are much more qualified folks here to answer your questions.
I would save the Mahogany for the trim work, much to expensive and pretty for a keel.
Again Welcome.
Brian.
The most important thing is to BUILD. If you can't afford the best material then use what you can afford. There may come a day when you need to make a repair down the road but you'll be able to recall all those days on the water while your working. I used SYP on my keel and so far I haven't had any problems other than movement of the wood under the glass on the stem. The problem is not with the wood but with the fact that I shouldn't have used glass on it. If you need your wood planed down try to find a local cabinetshop and tell them about your plans. Most will gladly help you out for a few bucks and they may even take an active interest in your project. You may even spread this boatbuilding disease to another person if you show them your plans. We need a fleet in NE. I look forward to seeing your progress and feel free to ask questions and join in on the other forums on the board
Keith
Hi Jonathan, we are in the same boat, so to speak as I am just starting my Weekender as well. I have built other boats so I have some experience to draw on. My last camp cruiser was built with affordable, non exotic woods. My keel (similar but not as deep as this boat) was cut from ordinary 2x8 (1.75x9.5 finished) spruce lumber and wasn't quarter sawn, a straight piece picked from a pile that had few knots. This was painted over and exposed to 15 seasons at a wharf or mooring and unprotected groundings, glad to report, not a single problem. You can build to the "old" yacht standards, but it is getting very hard to do that today with good wood harder to find, and as you found, expensive. Figure the old rule of thumb that the hull is about a third of the cost of your boat with the sails rigging etc another third and outfitting it the last third, then maybe it is better to build sensibly and in 15-20 years of great fun sailing, you have to build a new hull.
Just my 2 cents worth from practical experience. Hey, I used to live in Greenfield, you near there?
Ryerson
Welcome to the madness Jonathan!
SYP is a perfectly acceptable wood for your keel. You could probably use the 5/4 but I wouldn't recommend it without planing it to 3/4 unless you are really comfortable making modification to the boat plans - since the keel is the starting point, significant changes there may bite you in the long run. The 3 layer construction on the keel helps to keep it from warping so you might have issues if you did 2 layer 5/4. (The forward area supporting the bowsprit comes to mind as a particularly dangerous area for 2 layers instead of 3.)
My boat was build with Douglas Fir for the keel and stringers and for the plywood as well. Looking back, I would have used SYP on the keel - just as good as the fir and considerably less expensive in my area.
My weekender is hanging in there just fine after 7 summers on the water and the only real problem I have had was due to poor glue technique in the keel itself (too cold to get a good mix and cure on the urea glue when I started building. I fixed that and have had no other issues.
Get to the building and enjoy. Pick good reasonable priced lumber and get on with the boat - you'll be glad you did and won't spend yourself into the poorhouse.
Rather then buying costly hardwoods or other woods that are "desirable" go to the local lumber store and pick up some untreated 2x12's. These will likely be SYP or other reasonable dense softwood and flat grain. No problem, cut each one down the centerline so you have two 5 1/2" pieces. Then re-saw these into 1 by's (.75" x 5.5") You'll need a healthy band saw, so borrow or rent one if you have to. Now you'll have quarter sawn SYP or a pretty rough approximation thereof.
Edge glue them up and stagger the butts, until you've got the keel profile covered, then stack up the next layer, again staggering the seams and butts. Glue and screw the shooting match together and you've got it.
Use the 2 x 12's because these have to be cut from larger trees which makes for denser wood and you'll have a higher percentage of quarter sawn stuff after milling as I suggested. I bought four 16 foot 2 x 10's from Lowe's recently (okay last spring) for less then 90 bucks, which is more then enough for your keel at a fraction of the cost.
I am building a Triad, not a Weekender, so my keel only required 2 1x12's, 12 feet long. I tried finding #2 pine or fir but ended up using SYP. I got it at a local lumber yard. They let me pick through their entire stock until I found 3 boards that were flat, with few knots and close to quarter sawn. I only used 2 but the since they were $15 per board I got the third one in case of mistakes or possible future repairs.
I haven't finished the boat yet but I am proud of the keel. It looks great and is dead straight even after 3 months of sitting waiting to be attached. I also think the SYP works better then fir. I was a bit concerned about smoothing out the curve between the keel and stem, as on layer of that area is across the grain. it sanded smooth with no tear outs.
This comment may arouse some words. I just used 1x16x 8ft pine bookcase wood. The 16 inch width is laminated 2 inch strips, they were very stable. I staggered the joints and acheived the full length for my Vacationer keel. I covered the keel and hull with 2 layers of fibreglass cloth, and epoxy. After 4 seasons of sailing the keel is still solid. Use what you have available, and can AFFORD, and enjoy sailing her. To borrow a phrase from a fellow BYYB member "it's boats, not pianos were building " (Barnacle Jim's vacationer is an exeption to that) :wink: Have fun, and start building.
Greg
when i built my weekender, i used b grade pine. the cheapest and only stuff i could find in this rural comunity. lots of knots and not quarter sawn. i had a few cracks and holes that i needed to fill. if i remember right i did not pay any more than 50-100 clams for the wood. i have 2 years of constant beatings behind this keel and have no complaints. (i hope adla does not read this)
i will probably end up walking the plank over my next statement..... people tend to think too much and try to reinvent the wheel. in my experience,it does not mater what you use. you will have to service your keel annually anyway whether you use expencive stuff or not. the only thing i ever do do my keel when servicing it is painting the raspberries from beaching and occaisionaly filling bumps and gouges. no big deal during the cold season.
Ok, OK, I give in! I'd made a bet with myself that the answer would be something like "stop thinking and make sawdust," but I guess I just needed to hear it out loud.
Thanks for all the good advice. I'll go and gather final prices in the next couple of days. I really like Paul's suggestion for cutting down some 2X's, too.
I'm not far from Greenfield, Ryerson, but still about an hour further west, over near the NY border.